Saxophone beginners Late starters, gas and progress

[cappers]

Yesterday is a cancelled cheque, tomorrow is a promissory note, today is the only hard cash we have.....

 

[Colin the Bear]

From the back of a matchbox.

You'll never be as young again as you are today.

 

[MikeMorrell]

Perhaps this is an older beginner speaking to other older beginners:
Forgive me -
Yes old guys it is never too late to pick up a sax - they are seriously fun!
May I share please?
....

Should the older "beginners" perhaps be encouraged to experiment more?
I am going to very cautiously throw my hat into that ring for the older beginners.
to have serious focus on the fundamentals but feel free to experiment.

@Allophone, what excellent questions! Many thanks for sharing these on the café! IHMO your questions - and the responses to them - are relevant and valuable to all (relative) beginners and also to many 'intermediate players' (like me 🙂).

I'm just an amateur sax player like you. I'm now 70 and I first started playing sax some 30 years ago.

Please correct me if I'm wrong but reading through the whole thread so far, I would summarise your questions as:
- why does my 'favourite' reed (which once sounded good) now sound 'less good'?
- how come my reeds have become discoloured and are displaying signs of (hairy) mold?
- should I experiment more with different mpc's and reeds?
- should there perhaps be a separate sub-form for beginners?

Some great responses already!
Let my add mine:

Reeds
- Reeds do wear out so they don't play as well as they used to; sometimes (as in my case) through damage (chips/splits) and sometimes just through use. When I started our, I found Ricoh reeds to be relatively 'soft': easy to play 'out of the box' but lost their their strength and tone after some weeks. In contrast, I found Van Doren reeds to be stiffer They took more time to become 'playable' but they also lasted longer the the Ricoh reeds. I

- Different reeds out the same box can play very differently ('ease of playing' and 'tone'). So 1 or 2 reeds can be easy to play and sound great while the other 3 (however much you try and 'correct them' through clipping and/or sanding might become more playable an sound better but might never hit the 'sweet spot' (playability/tone) that the other 2 did.

- Reeds that become discoloured and/or show signs of mold are IMHO a real concern. I'm never experienced discoloration or signs of mold. I'm no expert but I've read that mold 'spores' can infect wider areas. So it might by wise to disinfect not only your reeds but also your reed case and the bag you keep it in. When that's done that your reeds are 'allowed to breath'. I have a soft (breathable) sax rucksack. In one of the compartments I have a 4-reed container which used to contain a 'humidity' capsule. Now long gone. At the end of each practice, I swipe my reed across my trousers to remove any excess moisture. Maybe you have higher humidity where you are. If so, my only suggestion is to leave you sax + mpc + reeds out in the open air as much as possible.

Experimentation
Everyone's free to experiment with different mpc/reed setups. If it helps you move forward, then go for it! But IHMO, there should ideally be a reason why you might want to experiment with other mpc's and reeds. In other words, can you articulate how your current setup of mpc and reed limits you? This may help you choose alternative mpc's/reeds to try out.

A separate forum for beginners
Not up to me but I vote no. Because there are relative beginners w.r.t. many aspects of sax playing. From choosing equipment to playing in bands to using mics/electronics.

Best wishes,

Mike

 

[Tenor Viol]

Yesterday is a cancelled cheque, tomorrow is a promissory note, today is the only hard cash we have.....

...or a bill of exchange payable at 30 days' sight... (I assume they still exist - I used to deal with them all the time in my early banking days)

 

[Targa]

Yesterday is a cancelled cheque, tomorrow is a promissory note, today is the only hard cash we have.....

Sorry sir, we only accept cards or electronic transfer.

 

[cappers]

Sorry sir, we only accept cards or electronic transfer.

On Wednesday MrsC took our granddaughter to the cinema and went to a pizza place after.
Cash and cards not accepted, order and pay online only 😡 They walked out and went elsewhere.

 

[Vlad]

On Wednesday MrsC took our granddaughter to the cinema and went to a pizza place after.
Cash and cards not accepted, order and pay online only 😡 They walked out and went elsewhere.

Damn right too.. I always make a point of paying cash for everything, very important to keep the cash option going imho

 

[Targa]

On Wednesday MrsC took our granddaughter to the cinema and went to a pizza place after.
Cash and cards not accepted, order and pay online only 😡 They walked out and went elsewhere.

Ridiculous, not everyone has a phone which I assume had to be used.
Even though I have one I wouldn't know how to use it to pay for anything.

 

[Ghr9204]

I don't use my cell for financial transactions, very insecure.

 

[mizmar]

I don't use my cell for financial transactions, very insecure.

I'm the other way round!
If at all possible I don't use my (main) bank for any payments or have their app. I've got a fin-tec account on the phone where I put spending money, and that's the most that can be lost if it's hacked. It has a card I can cancel in seconds, requires authorisation for payments and gives me notification of withdrawals, spending etc. it's part of my security layer. Extra bonus, for me, it operates in several currencies. I need that anyway; but it's means any online purchases in $€£ is pre-converted and is a bank-to-bank transfer; so fast and cheep.

 

[Colin the Bear]

Chickenfeed

 

[Ghr9204]

Chickenfeed

New financial app for poultry farmers?

 

[Allophone]

As one who started this mess.........
Thanks for all the input.
Truly - thank you.
Meanwhile have been doing my best as an oldster to practice with what breath I have left.
And --
Oh oops - dropped my mouthpiece onto the tile floor--
!!!
Uh Oh!
Old guys drop things.
And it broke -
Really broke -
So time to buy a new one ---and......
What I ordered was out of stock------
Jeepers!
So chose another one ---
All the while practicing with my residual "beginner" mouthpiece -
And of course one of the things that started this entire discussion had to do with experimenting as oldsters.....
Well - the replacement mouthpieces finally arrived - a wee bit ago - and they got played and ---weird - yes they were different -
And I did not like one and I sort of liked the other but I played both believing as a beginner that I could not judge and should learn both.
So at this point I am playing on three mouthpieces - all with different statistics.
Then today an old friend asked me -
"Aren't ALL saxophone mouthpieces the same? I mean is there no standard?"
He was serious.
I can here the entire forum snorting.
Please be nice to my dear old friend.
He has never played a reed instrument - but he is a really nice guy.
So I decided - even as a total amateur - to give him a demonstration.
I would take one reed and play the same little tune - the only tune I have learned - and using the same reed I would play it on my old beginner mouthpiece and also on the two new ones.
Well......
That single exercise just reinforced what most of the sage wizards here have been saying.
I am humbled -
-Practice
-Listen to your sound
-Be patient
And then to my questions -
Yes - old farts get to experiment!
Because -
When I tried to do this demo for my friend --
I could finally hear the difference between different mouthpieces.
Having never heard that before, it was a revelation.

If after such a relatively brief yet very intense time of practice - >> if after this time a lame guy like me could discover something to improve my tone by experimenting then ---
You know what? Maybe experimentation is good --
Maybe making demos for friends is good -
And maybe - even for old guys - maybe re-evaluating our favorite combination of reeds and mouthpieces on a frequent basis is something we should consider.
At this age - What have we got to lose - right?
So I am going to advocate - as a beginner old guy -
I am going to advocate for other beginner old guys -
Practice of course -
And please do not fear experimenting -
Don't fear the ExperiReaper.
Mouthpieces are different - so are reeds - and so are we.
Maybe send a sound sample to an old friend --- they will love it.
Enjoy -

 

[mizmar]

The name's Joyce, James Joyce.

 

[Allophone]

The name's Joyce, James Joyce.

Are we talking about an artist or an ancient hero or a guy with a saxophone?

 

[mizmar]

Are we talking about an artist or an ancient hero or a guy with a saxophone?

Yes, possibly, no as far as I know.
The author.

 

[cappers]

Well - the replacement mouthpieces finally arrived

What mpc did you have and what did you get?

I'm an older beginner (71) with about eight month's experience and felt I needed to change my Yamaha 5C mouthpiece as I've progressed and now finding it a bit limiting.

Yesterday I received a Selmer Soloist long shank size 'E' from Pete Thomas in the Yardsale, what a difference in sound and playability!

I think some experimentation is beneficial to find the sound you like.

 

[MikeMorrell]

As one who started this mess.........
Thanks for all the input.
Truly - thank you.
Meanwhile have been doing my best as an oldster to practice with what breath I have left.
And --
Oh oops - dropped my mouthpiece onto the tile floor--
!!!
Uh Oh!
Old guys drop things.
And it broke -
Really broke -
So time to buy a new one ---and......
What I ordered was out of stock------
Jeepers!
So chose another one ---
All the while practicing with my residual "beginner" mouthpiece -
And of course one of the things that started this entire discussion had to do with experimenting as oldsters.....
Well - the replacement mouthpieces finally arrived - a wee bit ago - and they got played and ---weird - yes they were different -
And I did not like one and I sort of liked the other but I played both believing as a beginner that I could not judge and should learn both.
So at this point I am playing on three mouthpieces - all with different statistics.
Then today an old friend asked me -
"Aren't ALL saxophone mouthpieces the same? I mean is there no standard?"
He was serious.
I can here the entire forum snorting.
Please be nice to my dear old friend.
He has never played a reed instrument - but he is a really nice guy.
So I decided - even as a total amateur - to give him a demonstration.
I would take one reed and play the same little tune - the only tune I have learned - and using the same reed I would play it on my old beginner mouthpiece and also on the two new ones.
Well......
That single exercise just reinforced what most of the sage wizards here have been saying.
I am humbled -
-Practice
-Listen to your sound
-Be patient
And then to my questions -
Yes - old farts get to experiment!
Because -
When I tried to do this demo for my friend --
I could finally hear the difference between different mouthpieces.
Having never heard that before, it was a revelation.

If after such a relatively brief yet very intense time of practice - >> if after this time a lame guy like me could discover something to improve my tone by experimenting then ---
You know what? Maybe experimentation is good --
Maybe making demos for friends is good -
And maybe - even for old guys - maybe re-evaluating our favorite combination of reeds and mouthpieces on a frequent basis is something we should consider.
At this age - What have we got to lose - right?
So I am going to advocate - as a beginner old guy -
I am going to advocate for other beginner old guys -
Practice of course -
And please do not fear experimenting -
Don't fear the ExperiReaper.
Mouthpieces are different - so are reeds - and so are we.
Maybe send a sound sample to an old friend --- they will love it.
Enjoy -

I have no idea whether you consider yourself a 'writer' or not. Whether or not, you have IMHO a real 'writing talent'. I understand @mizmar's reference to James Joyce. And I'm already a huge fan of your writing style!
I won't (possibly) embarrass you by adding my (amateur) 'literary appreciation' but if you're interested/curious, send me a PM.

 

[Allophone]

I think some experimentation is beneficial to find the sound you like.

Dear cappers -thank you for the input -- you and I are both in the eighth decade of life - wow where did all the time go? - but ---
OK i had a Yamaha - I think 3C mouthpiece that came with my Yamaha tenor sax.
So I bought a Yamaha 4C mouthpiece out of the gate - and that was better.
But I dropped it and it shattered.
So I tried to order a replacement - but they were out of stock and put it on back order.
I could still practice with the 3C.
At least to build embouchure.
Also ordered a #5 from another maker (Theo Wanne) and.....as usual that was on back order - LOL.
So I just messed around with reeds.
Well a few days ago I got the mouthpieces.
And to be fair I sort of ignored them and left them aside --
Until my friend asked me:
"Aren't all saxophone mouthpieces the same? Are they not standardized?"
And then I started really comparing them.
It was only today that I started mixing the various reeds with the various mouthpieces.
I really think we should all take a moment at least once in our personal career to do this --mix reeds and mouthpieces and see what happens -
It is a good experiment for everyone.
It does not hurt anything and it is educational.
Then..................
I made a recording using each mouthpiece --
They sounded distinctly different to me as I played.
They sounded distinctly the Same on the recording.
So that is also educational.
The subtle harmonic overtone changes are hard to capture in recordings.
I may hear my tone quality but..............how do I verify it?
This is an issue -
How do we old guys verify our tone quality --
We can not invite the neighbors over - sorry - hey listen to my crappy sax practice ----Not going to work!!!
So how as hermits to assess our progress?

 

[Colin the Bear]

The differences in mouthpieces are to accommodate different physiognomies. (and to part fools from their money)

Struggling with a piece you find difficult is a waste of time and effort.

There will come a time when you sound the same on anything you play. The difference will be how easily this is accomplished.

The point of gear is to allow you to be you.

It's very easy to become distracted by kit when the point of the exercise is music.

You can't buy your sound it has to be earned. However once found, the gear can help.