Tech/maintenance lacquer repair on a Conn Naked Lady

[syevad]

After some in depth online search I haven't found any indication of how to protect engravings while polishing by using a physical barrier e.g. a narrow strip of metal or wax or similar - in my case it wouldn't be that difficult as the engraving is basically lines (e.g. the naked lady logo is safe and in another area) - in theory it seems fairly easy (I'll get some very thin brass strip and cut it to mimic the profile of the engraving).
The final results should be fine...in fact the engraving is probably going to be enhanced as a result of being in an unpolished narrow strip (but what do I know at this hypothetical stage?)...then to all the experts in this forum....have you ever considered such possibility?

 

[syevad]

I think if you want a mirror effect then you abandon the idea of getting the hues closer to match.

Personally, I would abandon mirror effect...and shoot for closing the gap between the hues.

Mirror effect will be temporary (mechanical buff OR as I suggested earlier, find Hagerty 100 polish (THAT particular Hagerty product, the 100) and it will bring it to mirror after you first go with a more toothy polish.

But again, IMHO, getting the mirror sheen but the hue being yellow brass...is gonna be more of a contrast than staying with less sheen but hue mellowing down into vicinity of lacq color.

(BTW...that photo of tomato sauce on the bell....should have been deleted by Moderators for being a horrifically WRONG and inappropriate image 😵 ...it will take ME weeks before I an UNSEE that, if I am lucky....)

that pic is a bold statement - too much chemicals around, check your fridge first - oh, and lemon juice and vinegar do also a good job but the paste stays in place without drips

 

[PigSquealer]

After some in depth online search I haven't found any indication of how to protect engravings while polishing by using a physical barrier e.g. a narrow strip of metal or wax or similar - in my case it wouldn't be that difficult as the engraving is basically lines (e.g. the naked lady logo is safe and in another area) - in theory it seems fairly easy (I'll get some very thin brass strip and cut it to mimic the profile of the engraving).
The final results should be fine...in fact the engraving is probably going to be enhanced as a result of being in an unpolished narrow strip (but what do I know at this hypothetical stage?)...then to all the experts in this forum....have you ever considered such possibility?

You have a few small areas to clean up. No big deal to just use a polishing paste or cream by hand. Finishing with a hard wax or a light coat of lacquer. Whatever method used to apply the lacquer just think ahead. Masking will leave hard edges. Knocking those down there’s a chance of burning through the old finish.
As far as the engraving goes. Using a power tool to mechanically buff knocks off the fine sharp edges. Something that will decrease the value.

Whatever you decide you’re not attacking the task blindly or uninformed. I like that.

Here’s an example of a bell that’s been buffed hard and relacquered.

 

[syevad]

Relaquering is definitely out of my radar (no way)...delacquering is a "maybe" if all else fails - but keeping it as it is? Maybe better too - it plays fine.
I'm considering of masking the lines above the logo so I can polish to a mirror level without any danger of deleting the engraving - think of a very thin metal strip - maybe self adhesive...does that ring the bell? A fine line of wax or clay too....something which stays in place temporary till the polishing is done - there must be a way.

 

[PigSquealer]

If this was on my bench. I would go with the suggested Semichrome polish or a white automotive polishing compound/ cleaner wax. Flow a good amount on the surface, light pressure and use a soft cotton terry towel. Work the surface gently in big circles until the material darkens. Wipe clear and repeat until I have achieved the desired result. Final with a hard 100% carnuba wax or ceramic wax. Removing all the lacquer is not something I care for. Preservation is just fine for me.

 

[skeller047]

I’ve read this thread with interest over several days. I have three comments.

1. I’d avoid Brasso, it will remove existing lacquer. Chemically; Wenol and Flitz don’t do this so much.

2. While I applaud the use of tomato paste, I also decry it. Much better uses for tomato paste (see below…)

3. Not a good idea to argue with @turf3, he’s even crustier than @PigSquealer and certainly more so than I. My take, it’s your horn, do whatever you want to it. Though all this talk of de-lacquering naked ladies has me wondering how they got lacquered in the first place…

Best tomato sauce:

• 3-4 tablespoons extra virgin olive oil in a large skillet. Heat on medium.
• Add 1/2 cup shallot, finely minced, and a couple good pinches of kosher salt. Saute a couple minutes. (If they burn or turn dark, your pan is too hot)
• Add about 3-4 cloves fresh garlic, minced. Saute about a minute, no more.
• Add 3-4 oz good quality tomato paste. Stir until it starts to melt.
• Add 1/2 lb. sliced mushrooms. Saute until they start to soften.
• Add 3/4 lb. Italian sausage meat. Stir together until meat begins to brown.
• Add 1 28 oz can of San Marzano tomatoes. Crush and cut the tomatoes in the pan with a good spoon.
• Add 6-8 oz good red wine. Stir. What you do with the rest of the wine is up to you.
• Once the mixture starts to bubble, reduce heat and let simmer for 45 minutes or an hour. The sauce should thicken and reduce by about 1/3. This is a good time to address the leftover wine.
• Occasionally taste and adjust seasoning. If you wish to add fresh basil leaves, do so about 10 minutes before you plan to use the sauce.
• Serve over your favorite pasta.

 

[PigSquealer]

I’d avoid Brasso, it will remove existing lacquer. Chemically; Wenol and Flitz don’t do this so much.

I don’t favor Brasso. I’ve never used Wenol, can’t comment. Flitz is available in different formulas. Good product. Has a tendency to fog with heat on cups.

Occasionally taste and adjust seasoning.

Garlic doesn’t like me like me. I like oregano and parsley flakes. Maybe a bay leaf or two. I prefer to brown the meat separately and drain.
Now you’ve made me hungry 🍝

 

[Pete Effamy]

I too, have been watching this thread, and have not commented until now, after reading this:

The horn plays great

Er... plenty of horns don't, so when you get one that plays great and floats your boat you need only do one thing - nothing. Just play it and put it in the case until you want to play it again.

It's worth quoting again:

The horn plays great...

Stop

 

[PigSquealer]

What mouthpiece, lig and reed are you using ? Please also state the brand of cork grease and if it’s organic.

 

[Ghr9204]

I know that a good number have expressed an aversion to the product called Brasso.

I take a slightly different approach. I am very familiar and experienced with it. How many of those speaking negatively about it have never attempted use of it? How many know that like a polishing product, it quickly dries to a haze and if used judiciously it will not remove lacquer unless you rub briskly and hard over it?

This discussion has not changed my position on it. I did glean usefulness. I think it was @PigSquealer and maybe another tech that mentioned where brass tarnish has been removed, to allow it to sit a few weeks to develop a patina matching the darkened surrounding lacquer, so that when polish is applied, it will better match the lacquer.

Like all methods, it has its place. It is not for all to use or for all uses. And each person has their own preferences to certain products, having developed a successful methodology for application.

So, pick and choose what refined or mal-perceived method of your choice. But remember that the outcome is a result of your hands and no one elses. It is an individual responsibility to determine the suitability of a product toward one's applications.

 

[Targa]

I know that a good number have expressed an aversion to the product called Brasso.

I take a slightly different approach. I am very familiar and experienced with it. How many of those speaking negatively about it have never attempted use of it? How many know that like a polishing product, it quickly dries to a haze and if used judiciously it will not remove lacquer unless you rub briskly and hard over it?

This discussion has not changed my position on it. I did glean usefulness. I think it was @PigSquealer and maybe another tech that mentioned where brass tarnish has been removed, to allow it to sit a few weeks to develop a patina matching the darkened surrounding lacquer, so that when polish is applied, it will better match the lacquer.

Like all methods, it has its place. It is not for all to use or for all uses. And each person has their own preferences to certain products, having developed a successful methodology for application.

So, pick and choose what refined or mal-perceived method of your choice. But remember that the outcome is a result of your hands and no one elses.

Do you use Brasso as a liquid or wadding or both?
It appears Duraglit was renamed Brasso and Silvo in some areas.
I remember many 'happy hours' as a child having to clean the brass and silver in the house with that and newspaper to polish it with.

 

[Ghr9204]

Do you use Brasso as a liquid or wadding or both? It appears Duraglit was renamed Brasso and Silvo in some areas. I remember many 'happy hours' as a child having to clean the brass and silver in the house with that and newspaper to polish it with.

I have an older bottle of liquid Brasso over 10 years old, maybe 20. So, my experiences regard this partially used bottle I have. I am unfamiliar with the wadding.

About 40 years ago, there was a felt cloth dampened with a chemical like Brasso sold in some music stores. I considered it anathema to use such products, due to perceived possibly damaging sax lacquer. Prior to microcloth, I used a fine dry soft cloth to wipe down my saxes.

Apologies of course if the latest forumulation of Brasso differs from the stuff that I am using.

 

[Pete Thomas]

I have an older bottle of Brasso over 10 years old, maybe 20.

Me too. In the little cupboard full of various polishes. Also a final resting ground for underwear that has seen better days.

 

[Ghr9204]

Also a final resting ground for underwear that has seen better days.

The cotton cloth underwear work as a good applicator and polisher of Brasso.

 

[Targa]

The cotton cloth underwear work as a good applicator and polisher of Brasso.

Ladies' is better than gents' in many such uses.
That's my excuse and I'm sticking to it.

 

[skeller047]

I have an older bottle of liquid Brasso over 10 years old, maybe 20.

Me three, though it’s a tin can not a bottle. A pint or thereabouts. My experience with it is on an old Martin horn, with nitro-cellulose lacquer, and the Brasso just eats through that stuff. Lightly polishing on a bare brass spot, the lacquer border moves immediately.

 

[Ghr9204]

Ladies' is better than gents' in many such uses. That's my excuse and I'm sticking to it.

I prefer not flaunting such whilst wiping down my tenor after practice. It makes people feel they have confirmed their suspicions about me.

 

[JayeNM]

that pic is a bold statement - too much chemicals around, check your fridge first - oh, and lemon juice and vinegar do also a good job but the paste stays in place without drips

I agree with the idea of why use chemicals when you don't have to...but everything about food applied to an instrument is just sorta ...wrong...to my tech sensiilities😀 ...and the image was just visually jarring, no pun intended 😉

 

[JayeNM]

I know that a good number have expressed an aversion to the product called Brasso.

I take a slightly different approach. I am very familiar and experienced with it. How many of those speaking negatively about it have never attempted use of it?

I am actually going to posit that those who speak negatively of it (for this particular application) have used it and something was not satisfactory in that attempt. I don't think people here who have not used it would actually chime in and intimate they had.

n my experience, and I am talking a good 20 times I have tried it in situations like this -It is overly caustic, this has been discussed before. It has chemicals in it not needed to do the job (on the sorta patina/rot.etc commonly found on lacq brass instruments).
It can, and in my experience definitely has, remove lacquer (not by fault of the person using it, but simply the combination of the product itself with the particular lacquer type used by the particular mfr (talking vintage lacquers here, before the general industry norm switched over to the new type in the 70's-80's) and also the particular sort of issue you are trying to clean up. Likelihood of it not doing that on a Yamaha or other post 1980 horn is pretty safe, likelihood of it doing that on a 60's-earlier vintage horn is considerable.

So, the way I look at it, if such a caustic formula is NOT needed, and there is a risk that it can effect the lacq of the surrounding areas....and there exist other commonly-available products which do as good a job but have a negligible risk of damaging lacq....it would seem the better course is to steer clear, is all.

If no other product is available and one absolutely cannot wait 3 days for Wenol, Simichrome, Mass to be delivered, then I guess go for it but be aware there is a risk on vintage lacq.

 

[PigSquealer]

I am actually going to posit that those who speak negatively of it (for this particular application) have used it and something was not satisfactory in that attempt. I don't think people here who have not used it would actually chime in and intimate they had.

n my experience, and I am talking a good 20 times I have tried it in situations like this -It is overly caustic, this has been discussed before. It has chemicals in it not needed to do the job (on the sorta patina/rot.etc commonly found on lacq brass instruments).
It can, and in my experience definitely has, remove lacquer (not by fault of the person using it, but simply the combination of the product itself with the particular lacquer type used by the particular mfr (talking vintage lacquers here, before the general industry norm switched over to the new type in the 70's-80's) and also the particular sort of issue you are trying to clean up. Likelihood of it not doing that on a Yamaha or other post 1980 horn is pretty safe, likelihood of it doing that on a 60's-earlier vintage horn is considerable.

So, the way I look at it, if such a caustic formula is NOT needed, and there is a risk that it can effect the lacq of the surrounding areas....and there exist other commonly-available products which do as good a job but have a negligible risk of damaging lacq....it would seem the better course is to steer clear, is all.

If no other product is available and one absolutely cannot wait 3 days for Wenol, Simichrome, Mass to be delivered, then I guess go for it but be aware there is a risk on vintage lacq.

Well stated.