Keywork oiling.

[ken]

This topic has been flogged to death on SOTW, so much so that forming an opinion becomes impossible, so I was wondering if anyone here does any of their own instrument maintenance and particularly what oil you use on the pivot posts etc.

Quiet logically (imo) there seems to be two camps. One saying that the proprietary 'thin' key oil easily gets into the pivots and is made for the job. The other camp suggests various automotive oils on the theory that these do not dry out and have better viscosity/properties? especially in warm climates.

I normally like things that are 'made for the job', but I can also see the alternative point of view.

Any thoughts??

 

[griff136]

Hi Ken,

I use 2 stroke motorbike oil as recommended by my woodwind tutor at college. Its not too thin and not too thick either The stuff I use is synthetic and works well from one of those oil applicator bottles with the needle on.

the proprietary oils are good also but tend to be expensive for what they are(IMHO)

 

[Bobby G]

Hi Ken. I use an automotive substance called ATF (automatic transmission fluid) in one of those applicators like Griff's, which seems to work fine and apparently is non-corrosive. It is technically and officially the oiliesr oil known to man.

I believe it is very difficult to over-lubricate your horn, but obviously you don't want oil running about all over the place!

ATF is also the recommended lubricant of choice for Cashpoint machines (ATM's) which I am paid to fix between sax practice sessions.

 

[rs2sensen]

I use Selmer Key Oil for all of my horns. I never did it to any of them before I got the Selmer though (she's my baby...).

I found that when I disassembled my Yamaha a few months ago, the oil used by my local repair shop appeared to be very dark. I wiped that oil off and re-oiled with the Selmer oil. It might be my imagination, but the Selmer stuff seemed to work better.

You don't want to get oil all over your sax though. If it gets to the pads, you'll find they may get sticky. And, oil is known to get to the adhesive and make pads come off. Any excess oil on the horn will quickly collect dust and other particles in the air, potentially resulting in wear to your instrument.

 

[griff136]

I found that when I disassembled my Yamaha a few months ago, the oil used by my local repair shop appeared to be very dark. I wiped that oil off and re-oiled with the Selmer oil. It might be my imagination, but the Selmer stuff seemed to work better.

It is very likely that the "dark" oil you saw was just dirty oil. It is surprising how quick the clean oil gets dark.

did your tech clean all the rods ie strip down the instrument) before oiling?

It is, as you have done, better to remove the keys and the rods to clean both the rods and the hinge tubing before oiling.

I wipe off the excess oil from the rods, and use a pipe cleaner for the hinge tubing and the posts/pillars. I then clean the rods and ponit screws in a container of lighterfluid. wipe dry, then oil them and all the bearing surfaces as i reassemble.

 

[ken]

At 01:14:27 AM 01/05/06, Bob Green wrote:
Hi Ken. I use an automotive substance called ATF (automatic transmission fluid) in one of those applicators like Griff's, which seems to work fine and apparently is non-corrosive. It is technically and officially the oiliesr oil known to man.

I believe it is very difficult to over-lubricate your horn, but obviously you don't want oil running about all over the place!

ATF is also the recommended lubricant of choice for Cashpoint machines (ATM's) which I am paid to fix between sax practice sessions.

Actually Bob, you have reminded me that we used to use ATF when I was a FSE on EFT-POS machines and back office equipment, but we was only allowed to use it on certain applications? can't remember what the no, no's were now!

 

[ken]

Griff,

Thanks for the oil advice.

At 09:51:59 AM 01/05/06, griff136 wrote:
It is, as you have done, better to remove the keys and the rods to clean both the rods and the hinge tubing before oiling.

No way am I confident enough to, or am I, going to try it, but out of curiousity, is it a major task and best left to a tech to strip the keywork down.

Am I wasting my time oiling if I don't strip down (the sax, before anyone says it!)

Ken.

 

[griff136]

It is not a major task if:

a. you have confidence.
b. you take your time.
c. be methodical.


Oiling if you dont strip down the instrument is not a waste of time as its better than no oil at all.

I personally oil my saxes twice a year.

 

[rs2sensen]

Yeah, twice a year seems like the right amount of time. I bring my sax in to the shop 2x a year anyways, just for a general tune up. I usually have to do some "tinkering" after I get it back (the shop here isn't very good).

I typically do a full oil myself whenever I notice the sax is getting a bit too dirty in the spots that are difficult to reach, so I use oiling as an opportunity to clean the sax.

To Ken's question...Griff is completely correct on this one. I've done it a few times, but plan to take several hours, and be organized at it (you'll get a lot quicker after the first couple times of doing it). It helps to have a second sax nearby that you can compare to, and if the keywork doesn't match up completely, good pictures can help.

The big thing, is just don't try to force anything. You'll run the risk of bending something. And remember, if you do manage to get something not quite right, or end up with an extra part, then just take it to a local tech, pay a few bucks, and you'll get it back and perfect again!

 

[DaveW]

Stephen Howard uses EP80 gear oil.

http://www.shwoodwind.co.uk/HandyHints/oilaction.htm

 

[griff136]

rs2 makes a very good point re not trying to force anything.

a few tips:

once i have removed a key that is held in place by a pivot screw, then the screw goes straight back into its post. - this way the screw doesn't get lost and as different keys work/move in different directions it is always best - in my opinion - to keep the screws to the right post/key. likewise with the palm key and side key rod screws.

If you place the keys down in a line as you remove them then you should be able to replace them in reverse order.

Be prepared to get stabbed several times by the needle springs!!!
this can be minimised by placing cork on the ends of the springs.

If you havent got a spring hook then one can be easily made using a crochet hook or log on to www.musicmedic.com as Curt had a whole load of these going for a song.

invest in a set of half decent screwdrivers as the wrong size screwdriver can do more damage.

when stripping down the 8ve mech try and support the parts so they stay assembled as if this is put back wrong it may still fit but will not work properly.

Griff

www.dg-music.co.uk

 

[rs2sensen]

a few tips: [...]

Great tips, Jon! Right on! I'm certainly no expert at this stuff, I'm a performer, not a tech, but everything you posted was right on with my personal experience in taking my horn apart. I especially liked the first tip about putting the screws back in right away, I did that the last time I took my horn apart and it was a big help.