Kenny G

[tris]

If you are not pushing the envelope If you are not pushing the envelope you are not playing jazz. You might be playing jazz influenced music but you ain't playing jazz.

Old JC doesn't fair well if you compare him to Evans, Monk, Hancock, Tyner, Peterson, etc.


PS since when did Kenny G become known as a good player? (Was it the same time they invented autotuning? :laugh:

 

[mfox]

j cullum is i guess what you would call easy listening (not that its easy to listen to him) what i hate about this sort of musician is the way they just regurgitate other peoples music and say "look i've made somthing perfect better".. I know i know .. most of us play in bands that play covers ..but we don't make mega moneys from it...my band plays 50% covers and stuff written by me (which somtimes isn't a good thing)
i would put jamie cullum in the same corner as cliff richards and the welsh bird who did the gold finger theme..

now who i do like at the moment is amy winehouse.. writes her own stuff and sings like a diva..

 

[Rogerb]

It's impossible, IMO, to draw a line in the sand and say "This side is Jazz, and that side isn't", despite vast amounts of discussion attempting to do so.

As I believe Bird said "Forget it all, and Play!"

 

[tris]

A friend of friend of mine played bari for Amy Winehouse but he has been sacked. (Tall guy w' glasses in last two videos.) I like some of her stuff. It has intergitary.

He had upset so many people in Manchester he had to move to London and d'oh!

 

[mfox]

rogerb you are right, but you could lay down a beach towel and say who is and who isn't..kenny isn't and jamie cullum just has his toenails on the cloth

 

[griff136]

whatevr your preferences and I havent got any of kenny G's records/discs and I'm no fan of his style of play but heck I wish I was half the player he is.

Also if someone said to me

heres a few quid to play and record some really cool up tempo, far reaching, out there pushing the envelope jazz that is a real small niche market

or

heres a few hundred thousand to play some not so cool, not so jazzy, not so up tempo very popular and sellable stuff Im afraid Im with Kenny.

 

[Bobby G]

I think I'm with you Griff, I'd prostitute myself too 😉 But then I could also fund my minority-niche art...

I'm on the fence about Amy Winehouse - I saw some of her set at Glastonbury and found it, well, a bit dull, and her new stuff is, well, a bit dull. I don't like the production on the new record, it's like some frequencies are just mixed right out, the drums are too tinny and removed from everything else, and Amy, although she has an ok voice tends to over-use it, sounding like she's trying too hard,and sing off the beat. Not that there's anything wrong with playing around with a melody, but sometimes it sounds out of time as if she can't hear the track properly. I guess you'd call it 'affected' rather than 'natural'. So I s'pose really I'm not on the fence at all.

I like Lily Allen though. Any relation to Johnny or Lee?

Cheers, Bob.

 

[tris]

Dave,


I would rather be poor than morally bankrupt. (So would my wife which is lucky for her 🙂 ) Yes high principle do have their price. With so many people these days selling out no wonder culture as a whole is on the decline.

Even Kenny's fans would have to admit that he has neither the chops or the talent to be on the cutting edge. So I do not begrudge him making use of what talents he has to put a roof over his head, feed his family etc. We all have the right to make money out of what we do musically; it ALL has value.

However....

Given where jazz came from, the suffering from which it was born, to me it deserves respect. I am no jazz fascist and Kenny G would not even be on my radar if it had not been for the Satchmo incident. It is just so vulgar it defies belief. Shockingly awful.

Nice sentiment Bob, but you would never have any credibilty as a serious artist.

 

[Rogerb]

I really don't understand this obsession/fixation/whatever which so many have about this guy.... it does seem to bring out the worst in otherwise nice people 🙁

I have been told, by knowledgeable but more objective sax-people, that KG is in fact a very talented saxophonist and has played some great tenor.
There may be 1 or 2 people here who could hold a light to him, but I doubt if there are more, so saying what one would/should do in the hypothetical situation posed by Griff is very easy , but hypothetical 🙂

Be that as it may, it does seem(to me) rather inappropriate, especially in this season of 'Good Will to All' to start making comments on the morality of other forum members (or someone we don't know personally) ..... C'mon, lighten up guys, he's just another saxophone player.

Show me an artist or businessperson who never made a mistake and you'll see one who never made anything.

 

[tris]

To be fair Roger, I was not calling anyone's morality in question other than my own. I do sincerely apologise if my comments have been misconstrued and have caused offence anybody who reads this (in any capacity.)

The comment for Bob was a follow up to his suggestion that you can have a money making and a serious career with credibility. Having thought it about I guess George Benson did: in his area the most important contemporary jazz guitarist and one of the most important and top selling luminaries of soul. Another portion of humble pie por moi!

I am not going to post with regards to this again.

Roger you are right; Kenny G brings out something in me: a snarling monster, deaf and blind to reasonable argument.

 

[Bobby G]

I think in a lot of cases someone like Kenny G is just an embodiment of general negative feelings towards a certain type of musician i.e. one who is perceived as having 'sold out', by a certain type of listener or other musician.

Back in the late 60's Marc Bolan was a favourite of the underground/hippie movement, but became reviled by them almost overnight when he 'sold out' by strapping on an electric guitar and having hit records. This kind of attacking 'uncool' musicians by the 'hip elite' is nothing new.

Probably, Kenny and his mates make similar disparaging comments about more 'experimental' artists and their lack of sales, maybe on a website with a forum called The Sushi Bar. I remember, back in the 80's, populist DJ Steve Wright was forever taking the p--s out of Morrissey which is roughly similar - the mainstream deriding the new or different is nothing new either

What I'm saying is, it seems to be part of human nature to place your own group, beliefs etc higher up the 'pecking order' than those on the 'other side'. We need to feel we belong to a group with similar beliefs and tastes, and attacking those outside our group reinforces our own beliefs, tastes, or in extreme cases, prejudices.

In short, there's always been this dichotomy between the artistic and the commercial, with supporters and detractors on both sides. So long as this is done in a relatively good-humoured and good-natured way, with no personal attacks, I see this as being pretty harmless.
So long as you don't say 'you, person A, are a pariah and also evil for being a fan of performer artist X'.

In effect, Kenny G, or from the other side, free jazz, or in my case the Scissor Sisters (yay, shoe-horned 'em in there) are only a symbol really - it's ok to rip the 'p' out of something I like, I won't take it personally, just don't attack me personally for liking something you don't.

In that spirit, perhaps we can all lighten up, if we need to, or be less nasty if we have been. Otherwise, learn to take it as well as dish it out in the intended spirit. Now, shake hands.

Bob Green, Ministry of Truth and Reconciliation

 

[Rogerb]

So are you saying, Bob that you like the Scissor Sisters? ....................................... :erm:


Shall we rename the thread?
How about "Admitting our Guilty Secrets... so we can all have a good larf !"? 😉

(Trying to think which of my faves would get the biggest!)

 

[Bobby G]

Rogerb wrote:
So are you saying, Bob that you like the Scissor Sisters? ....................................... :erm:


Shall we rename the thread?
How about "Admitting our Guilty Secrets... so we can all have a good larf !"? 😉

(Trying to think which of my faves would get the biggest!)

The only good thing about the Scissor Sisters is that while they are playing on the radio Coldplay aren't.

A guilty secrets thread, Roger? Go to it, I've got loads of 'em. That's a good part of getting to the stage where you feel you may be approaching middle age, you don't have to worry about being hip and cool anymore.

I've been trying to edit my profile, I want to change my name as it appears now, Bob Green, to Bobby G, to avoid confusion with Bobk. Can I do this?

Cheers, Bob

 

[jambo]

Thats true Bob!

I can just imagine Kenny G Standing on a Golf Course with his funny little hair-cut , moaning to his mates about how crap Coltrane and Parker were and the "Small amount of records they sell compared to him"

 

[Pete Thomas]

I've been trying to edit my profile, I want to change my name as it appears now, Bob Green, to Bobby G, to avoid confusion with Bobk. Can I do this?

No but I can. It will not change your login name, only the screen name.

Done it, seems to work here. let me know if any problems.

 

[griff136]

no guilty secret..............

I went to a scissor sisters concert with the wife :S but thoroughly enjoyed myself 🙂 i liked their act they were in tune and there were loads of weirdly dressed people in the crow which made both me and the wife laugh.

I even bought the "TaDah" album!

 

[Bobby G]

Pete Thomas wrote:

I've been trying to edit my profile, I want to change my name as it appears now, Bob Green, to Bobby G, to avoid confusion with Bobk. Can I do this?

No but I can. It will not change your login name, only the screen name.

Done it, seems to work here. let me know if any problems.

:laugh: 8) Thanks Pete. That'll learn 'em 🙂 Y'don't mess wid da G-man

 

[Pete Thomas]

Talking of the G Man I'd just like to point out that unless we are careful this thread will spiral downwards. Some of us like Kenny G Some of us don't. And some don't care one way or the other.

So please think before you post. I'm pleased that this is a forum that requires very litlle moderating and I'd love to keep it that way.

Constructive criticism is fine but please lets try to keep it as objective as possible, and not get into "Kenny G sucks because I say so...". We all know lots of people don't like him (strange not to like someone just because you don't like their playing I know), so unless there is something new and interesting to say maybe we can let the thread relax for a while.

 

[Bobby G]

tris wrote:
Dave,


I would rather be poor than morally bankrupt. (So would my wife which is lucky for her 🙂 ) Yes high principle do have their price. With so many people these days selling out no wonder culture as a whole is on the decline.

Even Kenny's fans would have to admit that he has neither the chops or the talent to be on the cutting edge. So I do not begrudge him making use of what talents he has to put a roof over his head, feed his family etc. We all have the right to make money out of what we do musically; it ALL has value.

However....

Given where jazz came from, the suffering from which it was born, to me it deserves respect. I am no jazz fascist and Kenny G would not even be on my radar if it had not been for the Satchmo incident. It is just so vulgar it defies belief. Shockingly awful.

Nice sentiment Bob, but you would never have any credibilty as a serious artist.

I would of course work under various assumed names to preserve my artistic integrity!

My ex-brother-in-law is an actor, and a good one too, good enough to make a living out of it, and he does, but in the past, in order to fund his real love which is more fringe theatre or minority oriented, he has actively pursued short-term TV work. He can live with that quite comfortably, and I can understand both sides of the commercial vs artistic integrity. I can't say for sure whether I'd really 'prostitute my art' in order to fund what I really want to do, it's not a position I've ever been in so my response is a purely hypothetical one.

Cheers, Bob

 

[jambo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSAVLNQ54rc


Seems like a nice guy