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Saxophones Just bought a... but is it French or German or...?

Thanks Rhys, that's interesting.

Serial number is 973** which dates it to 1992.
 
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Seller added that it was a retirement gift to the person he bought it from. He had a Buffet clarinet from them too.

Did you get the clarinet as well?

My Buffet-marked Keilwerth has the serial 95,9xx which would make it circa 1990. It is not marked "Made in Germany", which was probably a bit naughty but would have been a give away.

Are you suggesting that made in Germany is better than made in France? :eek:

For cars maybe, but for musical instruments and saxophones in particular, OMG! I can't believ someone can even suggest such a cruel thing! :D
 
Are you suggesting that made in Germany is better than made in France? :eek:

For cars maybe, but for musical instruments and saxophones in particular, OMG! I can't believ someone can even suggest such a cruel thing! :D

No - I'm suggesting that Keilwerth saxes are marked "Made in Germany" and this "Buffet" was made there too, but they "accidentally" left of the marking which would have identified it as not really a French Buffet Crampon. Isn't it a legal requirement to mark the country of origin ?

I don't mind where my saxes come from, but it just so happens that all of my favourites are French, except for a Japanese soprano. I want to love my Made in Germany Keilwerths, but they just don't work as well for me.

Rhys
 
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Here's another oddity.

Buffet Tenor with Keilwerth bell brace but no adjustable palm keys. I just can't place it?

Anyone...???







 
It looks like the Buffet tenor has a plastic thumb hook and the Keilwerth EX has a metal one.

I thought that perhaps the Buffet tenor might be one of the ones made for Peter Ponzol, but I don't know how you would tell for sure. The Ponzol Buffet - Keilwerth advertised recently had the serial number 98xxx Buy Products Online from China Wholesalers at Aliexpress.com I can't tell from the pictures in this advert whether it had adjustable palm keys or not.

Do you know the serial number of the mystery Buffet tenor ?

Rhys
 
Yes, S/N is 959**
Fits Keilwerth list at 1990.
@rhysonsax that's the same three digits as yours. Does it look similar to this tenor?

The Ponzol link above has SX/Expression type bell brace, metal front F rather than pearl, and straight low C arm rather than curved. That one looks very Expression like.

This one's still a mystery...

Owner says it's marked "France Paris". I've asked for a photo, plus any other lettering.
 
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The tenor looks very similar (but not absolutely identical) to my German built EX90 (946**).
 
Could also be an ST lookalike?

Owner has said the "France Paris" is just what's written under Buffet Crampon on the bell. No "Made in..." anywhere.
 
The Buffet Expression Alto has arrived and it does indeed look brand new. A little spotting on some keys, tiny bit of corrosion around two lower key cups, and the ding in the bell is very shallow so should come out fine. I think it may have turned the bell or bow a little as the bell pads and lower D, E, F, pads are showing some light through. Although unused, it is 24 years old so who knows where it's been! Going to the tech Monday: Home Page

Since Charlie retired, Connolly-MIR has become Sheward-MIR with dent magician Matt Sheward now in charge having taken over from Charlie.

It'll be back in a week or so and then I can compare against SA80II & Beaugnier 38.
 
The tenor looks very similar (but not absolutely identical) to my German built EX90 (946**).

Message from Jochen Keilwerth (grandson of Julius) today, via Al Maniscalo (SOTW) about the tenor reads:

"It looks like to be definitively a Keilwerth made one, according to the serial number it's from 1990.
It looks like a combination of fully Keilwerth made EX90 (palm keys, pearls ....) and SX90 (style of h/b/c#/g# and c/eb spatulas)."

Hmmm... a one off I wonder? Does that make it rare and valuable, or unknown and worthless! I'm minded to steer clear.
 
I think the bow is close to Keilwerth sax made in Nauheim. I think Keilwerth started to do wide-bow saxes in the 60's. The Buffet looks like a Keilwerth. Made when both Keilwerth and Buffet was in Boosey & Hawkes Group?

Compare the bow on two Keilwerth bodies: A Newking from -68 and a Diamond from -63 (Keilwerth body with Dörfler und Jörka neck and keys). The bow on the Newking is "wider". It gives the Keilwerth saxes the powerful sound!?!?!?!
tnkvns2.jpg
diamond helvanster.jpg
 
I was looking through some back issues of the Clarinet & Saxophone Society (CASS) magazine and there were adverts on the back of some 1992 issues featuring the Keilwerth SX90 in all its sizes. They did not have the adjustable palm keys, which I had thought was one of the distinguishing features of all SX90 horns.

Saxpics.com doesn't have much information on these later Keilwerth models, but does say that the EX90 is assembled with parts produced by Amati. I had read elsewhere that the EX90 and SX90 share the same body tube, but don't know whether that is correct.

Rhys
 
...back to the Buffet alto... Matt at Sheward-MIR diagnosed a slight banana main tube, hence the inability to play, and the pad gaps. He's now straightened it all out for the princely sum of £170, including the bell ding which he tells me has vanished, and a service. The French seller has very kindly made a major contribution toward this work so all is well.

Will try and get it back from Matt before the weekend, but may be a while before I can compare it to others due to stuff going on. :rolleyes:
 
Buffet Expression is back and played tonight. Great job by Matt Sheward.

It's... GOOD. Very good! Need more time with it of course, but it could be a match for the SA80II.

Impressed.

I've also asked Andy Sapic, who test played it at Matt's, for his opinion. Let you know, if he replies.
 
I just saw this today........
It is not a Buffet "Expression", this a model made by Keilwerth, designed by Peter Ponzol. Production started in 1989, but then Keilwerth was bought by the Boosey & Hawkes group, and they would not produce stencils for Buffet Crampon, so production was stopped. According Peter Ponzol, maybe in total 25 altos and 10 tenors were made. Peter Ponzol have a tenor and I have a tenor, nobody knows where the rest are. I have seen one alto for sale during the last years, reggretably it was too expensive for me.
 

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