Tech/maintenance Just a general question to sax maintainers and repairers

[jonf]

I still work on horns that have Gordon Beeson pads that are in good nick. Some of those go back to the '60s.
Mind you, my PL YAS-62 still has some original Yamaha pads on it. An awful lot depends on how wet a player you are. Some can trash an upper stack in three years or so.

I have a full set of Gordon Beeson pads on my Buescher Truetone soprano, all still in good order. I don't know when they were fitted as I bought the sax second hand, in 1985, and they were on it then.

 

[Reedswinds]

Many thanks for all the replies so far. All very helpful!

Especially the points about - as @Pete Thomas said - .


This is something I'd intended to do but didn't express it very well. I have asked around in the sax section of my Big Band about which 'maintainers/repairers' they use and what their experience has been.

I just 'play my sax' and I have little or no knowledge of (or insight into) its current condition or the working parts (rods, springs, corks, pads, etc.). So whenever I feel that 'my playing' is not as good at it should be, my first assumption is that it's due to me. If 'the problem' persists, I get my sax (just to be sure) checked out. My local 'sax lady' usually quickly (in 5-10 minutes) checks 'the mechanics' and uses a light to check for any leaks. She once replaced the top 3 pads which she said were cracked. But up until now, she's refused to enter into an annual 'maintenance contract' or spend any more time on 'maintenance', because - in her view - the 'screws are stuck fast'. So for my sax, her 'service' - while generally excellent! - is limited to 'quick analysis and quick fixes' for any problems I report.

So I just feel that I want a more 'in-depth' check of my sax's condition. With recommendations about how to improve its 'playability'. The websites of Sax shops in NL often quote different 'levels' of maintenance (at different prices). From 'small maintenance' to 'large maintenance' to 'complete revision'. The difference between these are the things that are checked and potentially fixed (based on hours spent).

So I don't want a 'complete revision' if it's not necessary. As @Pete Thomas (and others) have said, I want to find a local 'sax maintenance/repairer' who will check out my sax, identify any issues that that need to be fixed, and give me a ball-park 'quote' on the price. And of, course, I will phone my local 'sax lady' first! She's above all very honest. If she declines, she will undoubtely recommend other local sax 'maintainers/repairers' who may be better qualified to do the work. Just for her integrity and honesty, she will always remain my 'go to' sax lady!

Just a couple of 'tributes' to my local sax lady;
- Most 'quick analyses and fixes' for my occasional 'playing problems' are free of charge. In her words: "I've spent 5-10 minutes, it would take me even longer to enter and send a bill"; In return for this 'free service", I buy any and all 'sax accessories' via her webshop.
- She once refused to sell me Légère reeds unless I brought along my sax and mpc to try them out (at different strengths); her motivation was "I don't want to sell anything to anyone that may not be suitable and which may lead to disappointment over their purchase"
- Looking to buy a new sax bag (rucksack), I had the 'best' (= most expensive) in mind. She advised me to buy a brand/model which was 'just as good' for half the price. I can imagine that she might have got less 'sales commission' on the cheaper model than on the more expensive model
- Over many years, it's become very clear to me that she (as a person) is much more focused on building an ongoing (honest) 'customer relationship' rather than on 'quick profits'. TBH, I doubt whether this is any kind of 'business strategy' on her part. I just think that the way she conducts her 'business' is a true reflection of her personal values and personality.
- I'm not a regular visitor to her 'sax shop', but we've sometimes spent to up to 30 minutes talking about 'personal issues' that are going on in our lives. So we have a 'personal connection' in addition to any 'sax issues'

As nice and honest as she is, if a stuck screw is a roadblock to more in depth repair work, find a better tech.
Sorry to be blunt, but that doesn't sound like a competent technichian, as stuck and frozen parts are just part of the everyday job. They are not anything unusual. Now without putting an instrument into top playing condition I can understand not wanting to put you on an annual contract. I don't offer them ow that I am independent, but when I was running a larger shop , an instrument needed to be put into good playing condition before we offered such a thing. Maybe thats's what she meant, that you would need two have more work done first. It also may be because it is not a newer model of instrument. Most places that offer contracts don't do it for vintage instruments. Like was discussed before many techs, do not have the skill set or desire to deal with the issues involved with vintage repair, which often require more prep work, unless the instrument has been properly maintained. Lots of worn out mechanisms, misaligned posts, damage from poor repairs done in the past, stuck and or frozen or binding parts. The can be a can or worms, also very rewarding if you enjoy that type of thing. 🙂

 

[Stephen Howard]

As nice and honest as she is, if a stuck screw is a roadblock to more in depth repair work, find a better tech.

I'll second that.
Freeing corroded/stuck rod and point screws are everyday jobs.

 

[Pete Thomas]

Is that the Alt F#?

Yes F#

 

[PigSquealer]

@MikeMorrell you purchased an 45 year old sax. Then used it another 20 years. All with no COA or pad service ?
And now you’re comparing to a new unit. No doubt there’s some difference as noted.
I’m sure your local “sax lady” has been kind in keeping your unit running, but she most likely sees other needs and doesn’t comment. Some techs don’t. They only repair to the requested needs. Appears that you have a long term service relationship with her. Ask for a full review due to your recent experience. Ask if this is within her interests of doing the work. If not ask for a referral.
As far as need of a vintage specialist. Any well seasoned tech should be qualified. With age comes wisdom. I would be cautious with a younger tech.

Asking AI 🤣 maybe for instructions on baking a chicken ? But would you really eat that ?

 

[PigSquealer]

Very true. They often haven't been exposed to many vintage mechanisms either, and have parts available to them for whatever they do work on. Becase of that, they have yet to develop the ability to fabricate, or problem solve and understand unfamiliar mechanisms on the fly. I have run into this a lot with recent graduates and newer techs I have mentored. They seem have learned a lotto what to do in school, without the why, that allows them to think through what they are observing.

Well stated. This isn’t unique to instrument repair. It’s common to all trades. IMHO schools are only teaching the most common basics.

 

[JayeNM]

O

Just a couple of 'tributes' to my local sax lady;
- Most 'quick analyses and fixes' for my occasional 'playing problems' are free of charge. In her words: "I've spent 5-10 minutes, it would take me even longer to enter and send a bill"; In return for this 'free service", I buy any and all 'sax accessories' via her webshop.
- She once refused to sell me Légère reeds unless I brought along my sax and mpc to try them out (at different strengths); her motivation was "I don't want to sell anything to anyone that may not be suitable and which may lead to disappointment over their purchase"
- Looking to buy a new sax bag (rucksack), I had the 'best' (= most expensive) in mind. She advised me to buy a brand/model which was 'just as good' for half the price. I can imagine that she might have got less 'sales commission' on the cheaper model than on the more expensive model
- Over many years, it's become very clear to me that she (as a person) is much more focused on building an ongoing (honest) 'customer relationship' rather than on 'quick profits'. TBH, I doubt whether this is any kind of 'business strategy' on her part. I just think that the way she conducts her 'business' is a true reflection of her personal values and personality.
- I'm not a regular visitor to her 'sax shop', but we've sometimes spent to up to 30 minutes talking about 'personal issues' that are going on in our lives. So we have a 'personal connection' in addition to any 'sax issues'

I am not gonna beat her up on this stuff. It's perfectly fine to have a tech to do quick, limited repairs for cheap and keep the horn playing. Quite honestly, having someone like that near you is fortunate.

But as others have intimated, they probably are not the best choice of a shop to assess the need for larger scopes of work....

 

[JayeNM]

Quick example...here's the sorta things which might NOT ever get addressed nor assessed which DO have an effect on 'making the horn play better' (besides leaky pads)....

Removing 'double action' in keys....this means, for example, interlinking or interconnected keys like the A to Bis relationship, the F, E; D lower stack to F#relationship, and the pinky C#, B to G# relationship are all dialed in. So often glossed over by techs because since they will not cause a horn not to speak, they are lower priority - but they will create a feeling under the fingers... of keys, when pressed, 'hitting something' before actually engaging the linked key closed or open....

.... I.e. you hit an A during which you feel the A touch hit the Bis cup THEN close. Likewise you finger a low B and you initially feel the B touch 'hit' the G# BEFORE the B key closes the hole and depresses the G# touch...

Keyheight adjustment - for optimal intonation adjustment. Again, oftentimes omitted in 'just get it playing' sorta repairvwork.

Removing key play in the barrels - same thing. Swedging is not exactly an 'art', but...it requires a good hand and some precision. Presence of key play can cause pads to leak 'sometimes' and then not leak sometimes....

A tech does a repad or a partial....but does not attend to those things...will result in the horn 'playing as well' as it would if those are addressed as well. Won't feel as responsive or quick under the fingers...and you may be inadvertently adjusting your embouchure to keep certain notes in tune....

 

[Tenor Viol]

As a general rule, I've always put my saxes in once a year for a 'light service' which usually means things get tightened up, any leaks get sorted and any regulation issues are addressed, and a light lube job. Except the bari, all the saxes are new enough to not really warrant anything more major. I ought to get the bari a full service as it's 30 years old.