Saxophones Is an upgrade necessarily a Selmer or Yamaha?

[andysympatec]

Thanks for the advice,

I live not too far away from Hansons and will be on the phone tomorrow for their advice. (Incidentally the reed was a 2 - could this be a problem?)

I was feeling under a lot of pressure, but I now feel we can sort this out very well - the music teacher at school said he was really impressed with the SA8 apart fom the "tuning issue" - I have asked my daughter to get him to email me his opinion of the problem to pass on to hansons.

I think we will still have a Hanson at the end of this - as my wife says - I can be really pig headed sometimes, maybe that's why I am so lovable :whistle:

I will close off this post when I get a solution - I don't want to be a pest.

Thanks for the points from all contributors - I have suggested to my daughter that she uses this site as a resource, you have all been really helpful

Kind regards
Andy

 

[Rogerb]

You are by no means a 'pest', Andy.... we are mostly here to give and get help 🙂
I'm pretty sure Alastair will get it sorted.

What finish is the SA-8, Vintage, Silver or Gold?

 

[Simon]

I think intonation problems when the instrument is out of tune with itself (ie the scale is whack) are kinda serious. Of course, I'm not a pro player, but I like to at least know that the instrument isn't sabotaging my attempts at being relatively in tune! 🙂

So Andy's daughter has an intonation prob with her Hanson sax and Linky's saying he has too... ever growing reputation, yep. Shame the 'appearance' factor keeps comin up ... reminds me of LA Sax (where are those guys now?) :whistle:

It's great that a small UK company is pushing out strong competition at a good price compared to the overpriced Yamahas etc, but quality's important too, eh?

.. good thing for the exceptional after sales service then ? Are these horns actually manufactured here, or do they just arrive on the same boat from Taiwan as all the P Mauriats / Winstons / Michael Phillips / Cannonballs / Tembys ... ??

Simon

Linky_Lee wrote:
It sounds like the tuning is an issue.
BUT do not assume that! This player could not be very good. Used to compensating for his own horn and playing it out of tune. Or the reed was too soft for him if he was using your daughters equipment and closing up on him.

I have tuning problems with my Hanson SA-8. I sent it off a few months ago and got some adjustments done. These didn't solve anything so I'm going up to the factory in just over a week.

Now, I think the Hanson is a great instrument and I love playing mine.
Tuning problems aside (which appear to be an instrument set-up problem, could be the same with yours) the saxophone is as good or better than any Selmer/Yamaha/Yanagisawa.

It has very solid keywork, better than most.
It flows smoothly and has nicely placed keys (It's a Selmer copy!)
It has an easy to blow feel, but still gives feedback. (many are a bit stuffy, or just too easy to blow).
It has 5 years warrenty! Unmatched anywhere else.
A respectable price tag and a good buy back scheme! So no worry about re-sale value!
They have a decent appearance, and an ever growing reputation and status.

If there is something wrong with the instrument, then get the teacher to tell you specifically or write an e-mail to Hanson.

I'd like to see he/she play both side by side and see what the difference is. Probably not much that couldn't be resolved by time with the horn.

 

[Linky Lee]

Hanson have no more inconsistency than Selmer or Yamaha.
In fact I'd say they are more consistent. (consistently good, that is!)

I've blown far more shoddy Selmers than anything else. Except the P.Mauriats which I do not get on with at all and haven't found one at all playable. I've even found 2 of 5 Yanagisawa T991 horns to be out of tune. Namely the palm key D and upwards being flat on two from the same shop (set-up issue at Dawkes?).

Hanson's are supposed to be built in Germany and set-up in the UK. They're awfully similar to some of the Chinese saxes.

EDIT: I remember why I posted now! I didn't know much at all about saxophones etc. before I started frequenting this site. I still don't 😛
But it is the best resource I have ever come across for anything. Nothing compares to a good teacher at first, but as far as 24/7 help and easy access goes, it does it all and with a friendly atmosphere and a laugh. That's what I call a service!

Thank You Pete! I say.

 

[Rogerb]

I believe the SA-5/8 bodies are made in Germany and the rest of the bits are from Taiwan and ROC.... not sure where they are assembled, but they are set-up in UK before delivery.

*Is* there a saxophone with no intonation inaccuracies?

(Hanson clarinets are UK-made)

 

[Linky Lee]

No I don't think there is a saxophone that is perfectly in tune.
Maybe there are some that computer modeled and theoretically are perfectly in tune, but in the real world the only things that usually are perfect are tuned percussion, and I'm sure they can vary too!

I think there's pretty darn close though, close enough to be more than acceptable anyway. The rest we can do ourselves. After all, we play the instrument. It's only when there are large inconsistencies that are too large to be corrected without hindrance to other aspects would I say there is a 'tuning problem' or 'bad intonation'

 

[andysympatec]

Hi again,


I took the horn back to Hansons on Friday - Chris did some twiddling with the Octave key/hole then took the time to get the electronic tuner out and run through the hole thing whilst explaining. Every note was within 1 or 2 "marks" on his tuner, which seemed pretty good - he assured me he was playing it "straight".

So - back to school next week and see what happens. If it's still not good I might have to ask for a good deal on a silver/gold one - They look the business!

Thanks again forthe comments - I will post the outcome from school!

 

[Pjonah]

Lets not loose sight of the fact that all beginners have intonation problems, some very experienced player too!

Thats why we learn our long notes after all. The instrument your daughter has is a top drawer sax, it will see here to her first world tour.

As she becomes more proficient she will learn to play in tune across the registers. I'm pretty sure most beginners play the upper notes flat and the lower notes sharp.

You can't rush a good lager!

Simon

 

[Linky Lee]

Did you mean that the other way round? Can't get the high notes so pinch and make them sharp.
Embouchure can't handle the vibration of low notes so loosen and go flat?

one mark is likely to be 5 or 10 cents. 100cents is a semi-tone.
20 cents is manageable.

 

[Simon]

Wow, what a thread...

I think what started out as an appeal for re-assurance by dad that he hadn't bought a duffer based on price and colour has now swerved all over the road and become a justification for return visits to the shop 'because their aftersales service is great' and the side-lining of anyone who doesn't dig Hansons straight away. Oh, and they come in a range of colours. Grief.

I personally don't like any new sax that doesn't play well after being set-up by a technician, and as a sax teacher I've played quite a few that could only be described as 'junk' because of their scale. They're frustrating for the kids to play (cos when they're in with a group, playing along with a backing or or trying to copy their teacher, it never sounds quite right).

So I'd advise my students to get a more experienced player to test drive it the instrument. Call me skeptical, but I wouldn't get the salesguy to do this. Generally the 'impartial' player's (eg teacher) opinions are going to be more valuable. As is a tuner's response, as long as someone else is reading it.

Incidentally Linky, I assume when you write-off 'Selmers' you're also taking time to include the French Selmer Paris horns, eg series II/IIIs and not just the Elkhart Indiana manufactured horns aka Bundys, Preludes.... ? 20 cents tuning discrepancy isn't 'ok'. Sure no-one plays perfectly in tune - that's not the point, it's having the ability to stay in tune with others that is - but try playing 20 cents flat with your group next time and check the faces. Hmm.

Totally PHONEY man.... Proud Hanson Owners Never Ending Yak

Simon

 

[Rogerb]

Wow.... what a cynic .... it disappoints me , Simon 🙁

Perhaps this *is* a duff SA-8 (every maker sends 'em out occasionally), but those of us who've had first-hand experience with Hanson's products and talked at length to Alastair Hanson appear confident that he will do his damnedest to ensure it's 'put right'.
That is certainly my personal opinion of the man.

As I've said elsewhere my teacher, a MKVI player with well over 50 years' experience, speaks well of my SA-5.

Pete Thomas seems to think they are straight-shooters and make good horns.

Let's not be too quick to assume anything.... the saxophone is an 'imperfect' instrument, and one has only to read the sax forums to see that even many highly-experienced players have prejudices for and against particular makes and models.

 

[Linky Lee]

When I mentioned Selmers I was referring to the Series II/III etc. not the spin off or bought out companies.

I have played around 20 cents out with a group before (on my Hanson to see the extent of it's tuning discrepancies) and it is nasty, but I said 20 cents was a manageable amount of variation, On the top end of the scale. I didn't say it was ok to play 20 cents flat/sharp with someone...

I think most horns will vary between about 5-10 cents in places. If you start having to alter the intonation by more than 20 cents, you're having to work too hard and the sax isn't fit for purpose.

 

[Pete Thomas]

I regularly play quite a bit out from a tuner. A tuner is always equal temperament, so often it can sound better when you are not spot on on every semitone.

 

[Linky Lee]

Yes I've noticed that. I tend to tune to the tuner and when checking the intonation compare it to the tuner and another reliable instrument, usually my piano.

 

[spike]

I'd been playing for about thirty years before I discovered "intonation", I didn't know what it was at first, but when I found out I started playing out of tune, so I figured it best not to worry about it, which was an instant cure. My best advice to anyone with an intonation problem is to throw away the digital tuner and wash yer ears out.

 

[Pjonah]

Spot on Spike, I'f I use my tuner I'm often miles out, but playing with others I don't sound bad.

Provided you have a decent monitor on stage you naturally adjust you "grip" on the mouthpiece to suit. Its pretty awful if you can't hear yourself though or if they change the key without telling you, try squeezing a third!

Simon

 

[Jules]

totally with you guys on this issue. If it sounds out of tune, it is out of tune, if not- I don't particularly want an electronic gadget telling me what to do!

 

[andysympatec]

Just to close off this thread from my point of view as the starter:

My daughter took the "offending" sax into school today, it was played by a specialist teacher who gave it a good going over. He pronounced it to be a "good instrument with good intonation"

So Chris @ hansons obviously did a good job in setting it up.

Thanks for all of your help - instrument choice is obviously a bit of a hot topic on this site and I hope it had kept you all entertained!

My final word on the subject? - Thanks

 

[Linky Lee]

I'm kind of an electronic tuner fan and not at the same time.

I feel they have a place and are quite an effective tool, but only when used 'efficiently' and minimally.

They shouldn't be regarded any more highly than what your ears are telling you, and I think they should only be used when you can 'hear' your problems otherwise you'll only solve the problem when you've got a needle in front of you telling you if you're sharp or flat.

It's also why I think someone should read out if you're sharp or flat and not let you see the tuner, so you can make adjustments and hopefully learn what it sounds like to be in tune and out of tune etc.

 

[Bobby G]

Andy, you're right about choice of horn (and mouthpiece, reed, ligature and anything else even vaguely sax-related) being a hot topic in here, but at least you don't get made to feel a fool for not owning the arbitrarily-decided 'right' set-up, as you may do elsewhere.

Cheers, Bob