Intonation Intonation Issues? Throw away your Tuner!!!

[skeller047]

And use those two hypersensitive pitch matching appliances that God gave you, one on either side of your head.

The video below is about guitar more than anything, but the point is you have to work on being in tune by using your ear. This is why long tones and arpeggios with drones are so helpful. We can’t play two notes at a time like guitarists can, but we can sure use a drone for the same purpose. Stop looking at your d**n tuners and use your ears!

This video is highly recommended, watch it all, it’s full of nuggets of wisdom. A few sales pitches too, just tune those out LOL.

View: https://www.youtube.com/live/LbBXKl15NNU

 

[atwl77]

Haha, I think that video was a follow-up of his rant about (regular, non-musician) people not realizing the guitar isn't in tune with itself, and their response being "how should I know? I haven't heard the song before."

When I do my long tones, I leave the tuner on but don't look at it. But in the middle of doing a long tone, if I feel like I'm off, I shoot a quick glance at the tuner to confirm my feelings.

 

[Colin the Bear]

Again!
Guitars are out of tune twangy when a tuner is used. Bang on with the tuner but the harmony is twangy.

Here is why.

View: https://youtu.be/6NlI4No3s0M?si=HFnJcucdD0UCMCHy

 

[mizmar]

Although I respect Rick Beato, I've never got on with his videos... Too angry / finger wagging for my tastes

 

[wakyct]

I did get a laugh out of his prior video that @atwl77 mentioned, he was in full cats and dogs living together !?!? mode. Mostly I use the tuner now for checking that the horn is in in tune with itself (like playing middle B and overblowing low B, a handy tip I learned here on the cafe), and then getting in tune at my lesson if we're playing a duet. I really should play to drones more though.

 

[skeller047]

Yeah, I am a big proponent of tuning the horn to itself. I use the B2 compared to first overtone of B1 method too.

The things I liked in this video were that Rick Beato teaches how to tune the guitar as the first step for a beginner, and the emphasis on using your ear for tuning instead of the visual aid of the tuner.

Good intonation is fundamental, and is often lost in the haze of scales, fingering patterns and the difficulty of improvising. Working on pre-hearing and being aware of the other notes around you pays huge dividends.

 

[skeller047]

Again!
Guitars are out of tune twangy when a tuner is used. Bang on with the tuner but the harmony is twangy.

That is implied, though not mentioned specifically, in the video. When he tunes the major chords (and the fifths too, though it’s not as obvious with fifths), he is using a sort of just intonation - in other words, the major third when exactly in tune with the root overtones, is different than the major third we use in equal temperament (which is what the tuner uses). The fifths are off too but not by so much.

I really liked the part where he bent the B string to bring an interval (2-note chord) into tune.

 

[Jimmymack]

I was interested in the flexible bridge thing. When I played guitar I was completely oblivious to this but of course the guitar suffers from the same, or similar, problems as the piano. Overall though I think he is a bit oversensitive and I don't believe that pro players pay that much attention to this fine tuning. Also we get away with murder on the saxophone however hard we try, and I do.

 

[Colin the Bear]

Acoustic guitar drives me nuts. This from a Banjo player. 🤗

 

[Jimmymack]

But I do agree about using the two hypersensitive pitch matching appliances attached to your head.

 

[turf3]

Well, guitars and saxophones are rather different.

1) A sax is kind of like a single string guitar - you don't have multiple tone generators that can get out of line with each other.
2) Saxophones don't go out of tune by themselves. Put the mouthpiece on the same place, play in the same temperature room, blow the same, and it will keep the same pitch for decades on end. Guitar strings stretch, guitar bodies gradually warp, and respond to humidity as well as temperature.
3) The way we tune is different than the way a guitar is tuned. You can tune a guitar to A=425 or A= 455 and all the notes of the scale will remain in tune with each other (or at least, at the same degree of in-tune) whereas every time you move the mouthpiece of a saxophone you alter the proportions of the tube lengths to each other. It's as if we were tuning a guitar by moving the bridge.

I've been playing the same horn and same setup for a long time (I think my current baritone mouthpiece I bought in 2006, my current alto piece in 1998, my current primary tenor mouthpiece in 1978). On baritone, my most familiar horn, I put the MP on the line and 99+% of the time it's in tune. I still check, just to be sure, but in my world the only reason for shifting my tuning position is if I'm playing with an actual piano that's not tuned to 440.

 

[dexdex]

@turf3, I couldn't agree more !