Intonation Intonation Issues in the Upper Register

[mizmar]

Why use a tone generator?

Because it works for me.

Use the horn to hear where it should be, e.g. play scales or arpeggios that contain the G#.

Sure. But not everyone has great ears.

It's good to have alternatives

 

[Dr G]

Because it works for me.

Sure. But not everyone has great ears.

It's good to have alternatives

It's good to learn to listen.

If you are playing a major scale - or a chromatic scale, can you anticipate where the next pitch should fall? This is how you start to develop you inner ear as well as your connection to voicing the notes.

 

[skeller047]

G#2 (the one with the octave key) is a "bad note", and it's especially so on tenor. But it's true on all saxes. This is just a fact of saxophone life, everyone I know gets stray harmonic schmutz sometimes on G2 or G#2. It has to do with the compromises made in the design of the horn.

The way around it is to be sure to "hear" the note as you play it, and work on your embouchure and air support. Your embouchure should be as loose as possible but no looser - the muscles in your face should be somewhat firmed up, but keep pressure on the reed as low as possible. Be sure to support the air strongly from your abdomen (I've stopped saying "diaphragm" because pedants will be pedantic...)

Long tones are good, but I actually recommend working with drone tones, making sure you are in tune with the drone - using your ears, not looking at a tuner. When you first start doing this you may find that you need to change your mouthpiece placement.

 

[Colin the Bear]

Bis or C may be leaking.

 

[Pete Thomas]

I'd suggest, also, using some kind of tone generator to get the note in the ear before playing it. Helps me.

I recommend this method over using a tuner as it also helps you develop your ears.

 

[PiccoloPirate]

Not every beginner knows if they are above or below a given pitch.
With a tuner, especially those like the Korgs, with a pointer, that shows which direction you need to move to, they can see when they are correct, and hold that pitch, while they internalize it.

I've had new students, learning to tune a string instrument, ask, do I tune up or down?

I would always have new students, listen to a given pitch, and learn to sing along.

Are you a music educator,
or a coin collector? 🎶🏴‍☠️🎶

 

[PiccoloPirate]

This is a favorite drone like tune.
Long chord tones over the keys.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPAC6zt_1ZM

 

[Dr G]

Not every beginner knows if they are above or below a given pitch.
With a tuner, especially those like the Korgs, with a pointer, that shows which direction you need to move to, they can see when they are correct, and hold that pitch, while they internalize it.

I've had new students, learning to tune a string instrument, ask, do I tune up or down?

I would always have new students, listen to a given pitch, and learn to sing along.

The OP is not a beginner. Each approach has its benefits when appropriate to a situation.

Are you a music educator,
or a coin collector? 🎶🏴‍☠️🎶

Why the personal poke at me? What are your issues?

 

[Richie Boy]

G#2 (the one with the octave key) is a "bad note", and it's especially so on tenor. But it's true on all saxes. This is just a fact of saxophone life, everyone I know gets stray harmonic schmutz sometimes on G2 or G#2. It has to do with the compromises made in the design of the horn.

The way around it is to be sure to "hear" the note as you play it, and work on your embouchure and air support. Your embouchure should be as loose as possible but no looser - the muscles in your face should be somewhat firmed up, but keep pressure on the reed as low as possible. Be sure to support the air strongly from your abdomen (I've stopped saying "diaphragm" because pedants will be pedantic...)

Long tones are good, but I actually recommend working with drone tones, making sure you are in tune with the drone - using your ears, not looking at a tuner. When you first start doing this you may find that you need to change your mouthpiece placement.

That’s really helpful and I’m very pleased to hear it’s not just me or a problem with my instruments. Thank you so much 🙏

 

[Pete Thomas]

Not every beginner knows if they are above or below a given pitch.

Good point I hadn't thought of that.

 

[Richie Boy]

Bis or C may be leaking.

Thanks Colin, I had mulled on this myself but both horns are brand new so I think it’s me !

 

[PiccoloPirate]

My post had nothing to do with you
"Dr G".
Have a nice day.

Playing for just 4 months, after a 30 year break.
Catch him at the Vanguard tonight? 😍

 

[Pete Thomas]

Its boring but playing long notes in the upper register

It needn't be boring....

 

[Richie Boy]

It needn't be boring....
View attachment 34594

I purchased your book last week to help me work on this 🙏

 

[Dr G]

Thanks Colin, I had mulled on this myself but both horns are brand new so I think it’s me !

New horns can have leaks too. If a note stands out as stuffy, it could either have a leak or be improperly vented.

 

[Richie Boy]

New horns can have leaks too. If a note stands out as stuffy, it could either have a leak or be improperly vented.

Is there a way to check this yourself or would I need to get it checked by a specialist ?

 

[Dr G]

Is there a way to check this yourself or would I need to get it checked by a specialist ?

Most horn techs, in my experience, will give your horn a look for free. Yes, you could drop a leak light down the bore, but it is a diagnostic that depends on your touch. If you see something “wrong”, you’ll still need to see a tech if you don’t know how to resolve it. >>> Get to know your local horn tech.

 

[thomsax]

I’m 4 months in to playing after a 30 year break and all going well except I have trouble getting or sustaining a good consistent note for G# in upper register on both soprano and tenor. It has to be my technique I assume as both faxes are new Yani’s with ebonite Otto link m/pieces, 5.5 & 6 with 2.5 reeds
Any help gratefully appreciated
Richard

It can be the sax, mouthpice/reeds that cause you trouble? It can also be the player who is "unstable".

I try to add some embouchure excercises that helps me to get better intonation (to "hit the tone clear", "renare tonträff" in swedish) and equality (better timbre) from the bottom to the top of the sax. I need a better feeling for intervals. A tuner can help me with the tone height but I have to trust my ears when it comes to timbre.

 

[turf3]

What people this is "boring long tones" is generally the middle school approach of "play some notes for some time while actually focusing on the game on TV".

I submit that if you make your long tone practice what it SHOULD be, it won't be boring. If I tell you to bench press 20 lbs, over and over, it's pretty boring - and it isn't doing anything for you. If I put on the bar the maximum you can possibly press, bring over a big hulking bruiser to spot you, and tell you "do as many as you can till you simply can't get the bar up, and then Omar here will lift it for you so it doesn't fall on you and kill you" you probably won't find THAT to be boring.

Go outside, far away from reflecting surfaces (if you can). Now take each note on the horn, over the full range. Go from pppp to ffff back to pppp, from so soft the sound is threatening to drop out, to so loud it's trying to break up, back to pppp. CONCENTRATE! Work to maintain a constant pitch and tone quality over the full duration of each tone. In the lower register you'll probably have to use two or three breaths to get through the whole swell and diminish range. Now do this for every note on the horn. Do it with every alternate fingering on the horn. Go as high into the altissimo as you can.

OK, maybe it's not as exciting as being the first guy on the stick of a paratrooper jump, but I submit to you that if you'll CONCENTRATE (my phrase is "with INTENTION and ATTENTION') you won't find this kind of work "boring".

 

[progger]

Good tips on this evergreen topic, and honestly I'd think it would be quite weird if someone didn't have intonation issues in the upper register, at least for a good long while. It usually takes many years to develop the kind of physiological control required for playing the "top tones" with control.

The book that helped me the most (aside from Rascher) was Dave Liebman's Developing a Personal Saxophone Sound, which is largely based off of Rascher and Allard, AFAIK. But any of those methods will be helpful. My tone role model for all that is the great Mark Turner, whose altissimo control is always extremely beautiful and effective. His solo on this track is masterful, IMO.

View: https://youtu.be/5q62A-fNmi0?si=fXFejVDrTLhWZH_U