Intonation Intonate or not?

[nigeld]

Having to push a Yamaha 4C mouthpiece past the end of the cork on a YAS-280 sounds wrong to me, unless the cork is unusually short. An alto embouchure can be quite hard work at the start, but you shouldn't be applying a lot of bottom jaw pressure on the reed - it's more about the face muscles around the mouth.

 

[jbtsax]

The embouchure I taught to beginning saxophone students included resting the top teeth on top of the mouthpiece with the bottom lip pushed back over the bottom teeth just enough to cover them. The starting point for the placement of the top teeth on the top of the mouthpiece was determined by putting an index card between the reed and the mouthpiece till it stops. Then placing the top teeth where the lower lip touches just behind where the reed and mouthpiece begin to separate.

A common question is how tight should my embouchure be? I taught beginners a "classical embouchure" where "EE" muscles pull out and "OO" muscles push in making a tug-o-war that the "OO" muscles win, but the "EE" muscles keep pulling. (Some call this the "Teal Wheel" where the embouchure is like a rubber band around the mouthpiece. Some of the methods I found useful to check the "tightness" of the embouchure included:

• Playing an A concert on the mouthpiece alone for alto and a G concert for tenor.
• Playing and Ab concert on the mouthpiece + neck for alto and an E concert for tenor.
• Playing a written A and with the free hand briefly opening the neck octave key and letting it close.
  • If the note stays on high A for a while before it drops back down, the embouchure is too tight.
  • If the note goes to a high A that sounds flat and flabby, the embouchure is too loose.
  • If the note goes to a nice sounding high A and quickly drops back down, the embouchure is about right.

On alto I like to tune to F#1 (A concert) and then go to the octave F#2 both with and without the octave key. Then I finger low B natural and "overblow" to its 2nd overtone F#2. The mouthpiece position that allows the closest match between these notes gives the best tuning in my experience. The same procedure can be used on tenor playing F#1 (E concert) or B1 (A concert).

Different teachers and players have different systems that work for them. I'm not claiming mine is the best way or only way, just that it is something that I found worked in my teaching. 🙂

 

[Jeanette]

@jbtsax what should it be on sop for mouthpiece only? Besides ear splitting 🙂

Jx

 

[lydian]

Given the fact that I can I play an entire octave or more on any mouthpiece, yet I can only play one note per fingering with the mouthpiece on the horn, I'd say putting the mouthpiece on the horn is a far better embouchure test than playing the mouthpiece alone.

I have no clue what's going on in the OP's case. They may not even realize saxophone is a transposing instrument.

 

[jbtsax]

@jbtsax what should it be on sop for mouthpiece only? Besides ear splitting 🙂

Jx

The pitch often given for soprano sax is C concert.

Given the fact that I can I play an entire octave or more on any mouthpiece, yet I can only play one note per fingering with the mouthpiece on the horn, I'd say putting the mouthpiece on the horn is a far better embouchure test than playing the mouthpiece alone.

I have no clue what's going on in the OP's case. They may not even realize saxophone is a transposing instrument.

That is true for a skilled player. However, that range of pitches is done by using the oral cavity and not by tightening and loosening the embouchure. Playing at or near the top of the mouthpiece pitch on a saxophone as is done on the clarinet produces a sharp, pinched, and stuffy tone. My understanding of the use of the "suggested" mouthpiece pitch is to insure the player is playing somewhere below the top of the mouthpiece pitch where the pitch can be lipped up or down. Jazz players often use a more relaxed embouchure and play lower on the input pitch which gives more volume and stronger overtones for a more "edgy" sound. Of course in order to do so they have to push the mouthpiece in farther to play up to pitch.

 

[mizmar]

But, yes, I've only to wait until Monday to ask now, so even with my impatient nature, I will be able to bide my time until then

I'm hoping the session went well and you're back on track!

 

[wooster]

Noooo! I started feeling under the weather yesterday and today I felt really rough. I’ve had to postpone until next week. It’s a pain of course but I’m just going to have to wait until Monday 🙁

 

[wooster]

Right folks, I'm back to what I call normal now and raring to go! I've been lolling around in the house a lot and watching youtube. I now suspect that I was trying to compensate for my tuning by pressing exclusively with my lips and was using way too much pressure on my embouchure. No wonder my jaw hurts! My poor teacher faces an uphill struggle!

Thank you all for your advice.

Anyway, I'm concentrating on trying to keep things a lot looser though I find instinctively I get uptight when I hear things aren't in tune