In trouble already

[Kinda]

After 10 years or so since I last played and then only got to where I knew all the notes and could read music (just).

I decided to pick up my sax and I've joined a music school and went last week, jazz band, beginners band, sax quartet ( with more than 4 members so not sure if its still a quartet?).

Really up for it and concentrating on my sound etc etc.

After reading your article on embouhure and the attachments I realised I had been putting my tongue too far over me bottom teeth and so adjusted accordingly.

The problem is that I have lost my confidence of blowing the correct note when I start and have to feel for it a bit. Also I have trouble holding the nice sound after a short while so hoping this is just due to my muscles being not used to the new position.

Any ideas, help because its just like going back to the begining and I've lost a bit of confidence, how could I have the incorrect embouchure for so long?

Also now I can't get a note out of my clarinet, so again not sure what's happening there either but the sax is the main issue at present. 🙁

 

[Tenor Sax]

It reads "tongue to far forward Over your teeth." I guessing you mean lower lip.

If this is the case, pulling your lip inwards to cover the teeth has the affect of tightening the corners of the mouth. Working this way the side of the Embouchure will be week.

Working with the new position will require the new muscles position to develop. You will find once out of this curve your control will be better than before.

 

[Kinda]

HI Chris

Thanks for the response.

Sorry it should read "too much bottom lip (and more) over my bottom teeth".

Help.

 

[Taz]

Hi Frank,
I'm no expert, but from the sound of your first posting, you sound like your getting yourself all worked up!
Before picking up your sax and dreading the thought of making a mess of it, take a moment to relax, take some nice deep breaths and then play with you mouth in a relaxed and comfortable position. You say you were putting your lip too far over your teeth, did that work for you? Did it feel comfortable? Some people play with their lip over their teeth and some don't. So you have to go by feel. Sax playing is all about emotion, what feels right at the time, so relax....be cool...it will come! 😉

 

[Kinda]

Hi Taz

Thanks for the advice and of course you are correct its just that I start with the band next week and would like to have the lip/emboucher sorted before then.

The problem with the bottom lip over the teeth was it very qucikly got too painful, I guess the good side is better to find the problem than not at all.

I used to practice for only half hour but at the end of this my lip was so sore and I kept thinking it will get better eventually. I know realise I should increase the length of my practiscing so I can guage if the new lip technique is working?

Thanks

 

[Taz]

You say your lip was getting sore, are you biting your mpc? if you look at Pete's' main site there is a good piece on embouchure that may help, if you haven't seen it already.
I'll probably shut up now and let someone who does know what their talking about have a say :laugh:
Best of luck

 

[losaavedra]

Personally I find adopting a consistent embouchure the most difficult bit about playing the sax. For me, sometimes its 'lip over bottom teeth', sometimes its just 'bottom lip', sometimes its screwing everything in from the side of my mouth (I quite like that one!) ... and sometimes an assortment of other approaches involving coming in from above or below (or whatever seems like a good idea at the time). I find the fingering side of things to be far easier by comparison ... but all the tonal variations in the end seem to come out of what one does with one's mouth. I suppose its all part of the learning process. One day I'll be brave enough to stick something in the 'your soundclips' section ... once I can do (better than just rather badly) a few more than the first few bars of a ridiculously large number of tunes I've had a go at so far!!

 

[justin_chune]

Hi Kinda. You were not using the "wrong" embouchure. Your problem is that you were biting your lip and had to stop playing because of the pain. Many people play the sax the way you describe. I prefer my lip out as that method just feels right for me.

To resolve your problem you need to acquire what I have seen described as a "light Bite"embouchure. Whichever embouchure method you choose, the reed rests on your lower lip and your top teeth rest lightly on the beak with no biting pressure.

Use a nice soft reed that will vibrate easily in the gentle airstream of well controlled breath. That's breath, as in breathing, and not blowing. Try and produce the sound with as little effort as possible.

It takes some time to form an embouchure. When yours forms you will be able to play all day 🙂 That's the good news.

Enjoy the music school. I'm sure you will get lots of good advice there.

I have a nice free blowing clarinet and when I first tried to play it after taking up the sax I thought it had been stuffed with cotton wool. Keep at it, you'll get there.

I hope some of this helps.

Jim.

 

[Kinda]

Hi all

Thanks again and this afternoon practice was a success, new bottom lip (yet another good suggestion Jim) and was able to practice for triple the time prior to my changed embouchure/lip technique and could have gone on for more.

I'm not getting such a nice sound but will stick with this technique for a bit longer before trying some of the ideas from the site.