Playing the saxophone Improvised solos and “telling a story”

[Pete Effamy]

Then it's not about whether you actually visualize an actual faun.

But that’s the story!!

 

[mizmar]

But that’s the story!!

Poem. Yes.
But musical impressionism wants to be, something like, "conveying the moods and emotions aroused by the subject rather than a detailed tone‐picture" (quick wiki)
Not "conveying the actual size, coloration and smell of a living animal"

Anyway, there are many bits of classical music which are meant to give literal images of kings or war or such... Which would be better examples

 

[Pete Effamy]

Poem. Yes.
But musical impressionism wants to be, something like, "conveying the moods and emotions aroused by the subject rather than a detailed tone‐picture" (quick wiki)
Not "conveying the actual size, coloration and smell of a living animal"

Anyway, there are many bits of classical music which are meant to give literal images of kings or war or such... Which would be better examples

Lovely. Enhances imagination, invoke feelings etc. but tell a story? Some here seem to be saying that “good music / solos” tell a story.

 

[Pete Effamy]

Poem. Yes.
But musical impressionism wants to be, something like, "conveying the moods and emotions aroused by the subject rather than a detailed tone‐picture" (quick wiki)
Not "conveying the actual size, coloration and smell of a living animal"

Anyway, there are many bits of classical music which are meant to give literal images of kings or war or such... Which would be better examples

Poem. Description of events. Like a story?

 

[mizmar]

Lovely. Enhances imagination, invoke feelings etc. but tell a story?

If you can invoke a feeling, you can invoke a sequence of feelings; an emotional trajectory with a form or structure. Like a story...

Poem. Description of events. Like a story?

Just more abstract.

Maybe not or maybe; but that's was my question in post #8

 

[Zasterz]

And btw when people say not to get your “knickers in a twist,” they’re not talking about your actual pants. Must be difficult needing to be this literal… 😏

 

[Pete Effamy]

And btw when people say not to get your “knickers in a twist,” they’re not talking about your actual pants. Must be difficult needing to be this literal… 😏

Some people prefer a more accurate use of words

 

[Zasterz]

Some people prefer a more accurate use of words

Counterpoint: the use of idioms is a normal part of being fluent in a language. Has nothing to do with “accuracy.” Go figure.*

Top 50 English Idioms and Phrases to Learn English

Discover 50 English idioms and phrases with meanings and examples. Learn idioms in English and common idiomatic expressions to speak more confidently.

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*also an idiom.

 

[Pete Effamy]

Counterpoint: the use of idioms is a normal part of being fluent in a language. Has nothing to do with “accuracy.” Go figure.*

Top 50 English Idioms and Phrases to Learn English

Discover 50 English idioms and phrases with meanings and examples. Learn idioms in English and common idiomatic expressions to speak more confidently.

www.oxfordinternationalenglish.com

*also an idiom.

I’m British. Never heard of any of them.

 

[Zasterz]

I’m British. Never heard of any of them.

You’re pulling my leg.

Amazon.com: Oxford Idioms Dictionary for Learners of English: 9780194315456: Toby, Jennifer: Books

Amazon.com: Oxford Idioms Dictionary for Learners of English: 9780194315456: Toby, Jennifer: Books

www.amazon.com

 

[Pete Effamy]

You’re pulling my leg.

Amazon.com: Oxford Idioms Dictionary for Learners of English: 9780194315456: Toby, Jennifer: Books

Amazon.com: Oxford Idioms Dictionary for Learners of English: 9780194315456: Toby, Jennifer: Books

www.amazon.com

Definition of SARCASM

Indeed.

 

[LostCircuits]

I feel so blessed now for having an extremely vivid imagination paired with an above average shot of synesthesia!
And for having known Oliver Sacks!

 

[Pete Effamy]

I feel so blessed now for having an extremely vivid imagination paired with an above average shot of synesthesia!
And for having known Oliver Sacks!

That’s just the alcohol

 

[dexdex]

Interesting topic indeed. Not sure about the need of a story, and what story by the way.
What I do notice among my favorite solos, and, by extension, musicians, is the use of clear statements.
Sonny’s solo above is a stellar example.
Wes Montgomery is among my top favorite musicians. Many of his solos show a layered structure. He starts with single notes, continues with octaves, and ends with chords. Could this be called a story ?
Wes also makes a frequent use of question and answer.
In The Thumb, he mixes single notes or octave phrases with chord answers. Story ? Not sure. But it clearly draws attention, makes it interesting to listen to. By the way, Ron Carter plays on this session, brilliant interplay. He is still doing fine.
OK, we’re a saxophone community. Sonny, Dex, Cannonball come to my mind as very statement oriented soloists.

View: https://youtu.be/zFCVV-dFAe8

 

[Pete Thomas]

Interesting topic indeed. Not sure about the need of a story, and what story by the way.
What I do notice among my favorite solos, and, by extension, musicians, is the use of clear statements.

I used telling a story in the title knowing nobody was going to talk about a literal story. As @Zasterz pointed out early in the thread it’s more about compositional guidelines. I do apologise that it might seem a bit clickbaity.

I won’t try to make a direct analogy between music and fine art, except to point out there are degrees of abstraction vs realism, ie how much is explicit and how much down to the perception or imagination of the audience.

 

[skeller047]

I think I may have been misguided in my earlier post. There can be shared common understanding of musical ideas. When a jazz band is really swinging hard, or a rock guitarist is shredding, the audience often reacts strongly. This implies they have a collective understanding of the music (well duh, they just paid a lot of money to get in!!)

So well-played music in a style known to the audience communicates SOMETHING- is that the same as “telling a story”? And if the audience isn’t familiar with the style or format of the music, then there is very little communication so the story doesn’t get told.

Prime example, classical music patrons walked out of the premier of Stravinsky’s Rite of Spring (I think there was a riot), but today lovers of classical music adore and revere this composition.

Rite of Spring, and Night in Tunisia have become staples in their respective stylistic homes. When I play Night in Tunisia, I try to create a cohesive and memorable solo, but usually the story I end up telling is “I’m not Bird”. But the tune does have some stylistic shackles; I’ve never heard it played as a ballad.

Maybe sometimes, the story is widely known to the audience, and they can appreciate a fresh take on it. Or a skillful re-reading of the original. And there is always room for new stories, even if, or perhaps especially if, they are in the same vein stylistically.

I’m not really sure where I’m going with this idea, but I am sure I neglected the role of cultural expectations in music when contrasting it with the written or spoken word.

 

[Pete Effamy]

Prime example, classical music patrons walked out of the premier of Stravinsky’s Rite of Spring (I think there was a riot), but today lovers of classical music adore and revere this composition.

Yes, I wonder if it was the “brutality” (? - to them) of Stravinsky’s score or the “oddness” of Najinsky’s choreography. Or both.

Possibly the intense dissonance. But had Berg’s “Wozzeck” not premiered by then? Pierot Lunaire?

Will need to Google this now…

 

[thomsax]

@rhysonsax
I don't know, but I think to play a slow tempo in the context of a song is .... to let the listeners into your solo. Often a solo is too much .... tones, high tempo .... . Here is one ot favoutite solos. Slow tempo, twelve eighth notes time, "triplet felling" to make more bluesy, few tones (five) ...... Improvised? Albert gave directions in the headphones to the horn players. By mistake they recorded it ... and they kept it .... . I don't know who is playing the solo. The short solo starts arond 2:30.

View: https://youtu.be/Z6DBNhZ3fOU?si=IQ_VAQbbq-1wDw2H

 

[Pete Thomas]

Maybe there is a correlation between bebop and Stravinsky. As far as we know bebop was intended as a reaction against the trad & swing music of the time. It's when for jazz, danceability was not taken into account, or maybe even eschewed. For Classical a comparable step was taken. Both were more abstract and (arguably) meant to least disrupt the status quo and cause some kind of sensation or shock.

 

[Pete Effamy]

Maybe there is a correlation between bebop and Stravinsky. As far as we know bebop was intended as a reaction against the trad & swing music of the time. It's when for jazz, danceability was not taken into account, or maybe even eschewed. For Classical a comparable step was taken. Both were more abstract and (arguably) meant to least disrupt the status quo and cause some kind of sensation or shock.

Yes, I think that Bebop was a pretty extreme reaction, not only against “audience - friendly “ / dancing / entertainment etc, but even maybe a “I play for me” thing, and the audience can listen / attend or not.

Artie Shaw was horrified by the energetic dancing while he and his band were playing.