Playing the saxophone Improvised solos and “telling a story”

[Pete Effamy]

- P Lunaire was out there around 1912 - 14, Wozzeck into the ‘20’s.

 

[rhysonsax]

@rhysonsax
I don't know, but I think to play a slow tempo in the context of a song is .... to let the listeners into your solo. Often a solo is too much .... tones, high tempo .... . Here is one ot favoutite solos. Slow tempo, twelve eighth notes time, "triplet felling" to make more bluesy, few tones (five) ...... Improvised? Albert gave directions in the headphones to the horn players. By mistake they recorded it ... and they kept it .... . I don't know who is playing the solo. The short solo starts arond 2:30.

View: https://youtu.be/Z6DBNhZ3fOU?si=IQ_VAQbbq-1wDw2H

Yeah, nice - it's a great tune (I wonder if it has been a SOTM here) and I have never heard it done this way.

But to be honest the saxophone is just playing the melody at 2:30 and a little fill at about 3:00. It works and it suits the recording, as does Albert giving his directions.

Rhys

 

[JSL]

Sonny Rollins St. Thomas. This is one of my favourite solos of all time.

Absolutely! Yeah, that's right near the top of my list of favorite solos.

As to 'telling a story', some composers (along with improvisers) are good at this. I'd say Charles Mingus was one of the best at telling a story, or, better yet, taking you on a journey, with his music.

 

[LostCircuits]

That’s just the alcohol

I didn't know, you mean I should start drinking?

 

[JSL]

You’re pulling my leg.

But not literally! 😉

 

[JSL]

I used telling a story in the title knowing nobody was going to talk about a literal story. As @Zasterz pointed out early in the thread it’s more about compositional guidelines. I do apologise that it might seem a bit clickbaity.

I won’t try to make a direct analogy between music and fine art, except to point out there are degrees of abstraction vs realism, ie how much is explicit and how much down to the perception or imagination of the audience.

Yeah Pete, I'm surprised anyone took it to mean telling an actual, literal story. "Telling a story" (musically) is a common idiom. It's a valid question to ask how best to do this in a musical way, using phrasing, building up to a climax, tension & release, etc. And that's been answered in many of the posts above, with examples. But obviously we aren't discussing how to do this as a literal story such as "Jack went up the hill to fetch a pail of water".

 

[Saxlicker]

I'd describe nice improvisation more as taking the listeners mind on a journey through the rhythm and beat of the tune by extending the melody nicely without leaving behind the tune yet being able to change the mood with tempo, tone and phrasing.

 

[JayeNM]

There are no instrumental solos that "tell a story".

Telling a Story = Narrative.

An instrument playing notes, regardless of how beautiful or how evocative the solo is....can evoke a listener response, can arguably express an emotion, impressionistically (i.e. that solo was angry....that solo was forlorn...that solo was sexy.....that solo was beautiful...that solo was clever...or even "that solo was really interesting it started out sorta meandering and unfocused or sorta lost, then as it progressed it felt like as if it was getting more emphatic and confident, like it found what it was looking for")...

But it cannot produce a narrative.

It will always be up to the listeners interpretation ....and it would be up to the listener, not the player, to assign or concoct a narrative to it.....

Thus, no narrative being produced by the player.... it is not telling a story.

Lyrics are for telling stories. Instrumental solos contain no lyrics. Instrumental solos produce no narratives.

I have always though an instrumentalist saying that..."I wanna tell a story with my horn, man"...is just giving their ego, and perhaps something else, a nice self-pleasuring massage....

"I wanna evoke sadness in this solo"...or even just "I wanna touch the listener emotionally with my solos"...is probably a much more accurate way of putting it.

Now get the h#ll off my Lawn......

 

[JSL]

There are no instrumental solos that "tell a story".

Telling a Story = Narrative.

Now get the h#ll off my Lawn......

As I said in an earlier post, "telling a story", when applied to music, is an idiom: Here's a definition of idiom:

"Phrases with figurative meanings, different from their literal words". So, stop taking it literally.

Now, go mow my lawn. 🙂

 

[JayeNM]

As I said in an earlier post, "telling a story", when applied to music, is an idiom: Here's a definition of idiom:

"Phrases with figurative meanings, different from their literal words". So, stop taking it literally.

Now, go mow my lawn. 🙂

True. But...

The problem is.... musicians say this all the time, and honestly I doubt highly they make such distinctions as in they mean it "idiomatically".

So....desire to evoke emotion....vs. desire to narrate/communicate a story.

Is the latter really a "figurative ' version of the former ?

It's fair to say.....it's not really, right ? It is sorta in a similar neighborhood, but not ....

And the thread OP was asking folks to describe how they tell a story with their axe, if that is what they believe themselves to be doing....as commonly a fair amount claim to.

Thus one can claim more or less "it's just a figure of speech"...but in this instance I'd argue it's the wrong figure of speech... if the desire is "I wanna make the listener feel this solo"...or " I wanna let my solo develop over the choruses to move to a different place than it started from", etc. etc...basically...

 

[JayeNM]

Really interesting topic, btw....

 

[JSL]

And the thread OP was asking folks to describe how they tell a story with their axe, if that is what they believe themselves to be doing....as commonly a fair amount claim to.

I'm quite certain that they know they aren't telling an actual story (as in a book or vocal telling of a story). So, they are fully aware they are using the term 'story' idiomatically (even if they don't know that term or the definition of 'idiomatic').

 

[Zasterz]

But not literally! 😉

Speaking of British Idioms, I realized immediately after I posted that I’d missed a prime opportunity to use “you’re taking the p*ss.”

 

[Pete Thomas]

Speaking of British Idioms, I realized immediately after I posted that I’d missed a prime opportunity to use “you’re taking the p*ss.”

What about “pulling my plonker?” I’d store that one away for future use, Del.

 

[LostCircuits]

And the thread OP was asking folks to describe how they tell a story with their axe, if that is what they believe themselves to be doing....as commonly a fair amount claim to.

Vikings?

Thus one can claim more or less "it's just a figure of speech"...but in this instance I'd argue it's the wrong figure of speech... if the desire is "I wanna make the listener feel this solo"...or " I wanna let my solo develop over the choruses to move to a different place than it started from", etc. etc...basically...

Seriously? Have you ever consciously pondered in the middle of a solo that "other" place? And then found yourself in a beautiful house, with a beautiful wife and a large automobile. And then you ask yourself: How did I get here?

 

[mizmar]

There ought to be a bonus system for people who can use song lyrics, in context, in a post

 

[thomsax]

Is this actually true?

No.

Do you consider you are (or attempting) telling a story when you improvise?

No. I try to play a solo close to the lyrics! An improvised solo, I like to sing so I try to play the things that are in between the lines.

Improvisng? What is that? I've been an improvisng person most of my life. Less when it comes to music.

 

[mizmar]

I'm thinking there's two senses;
a specific story
and the form or structure stories

Should have been a poll.
Seems pretty evenly split. But interesting that everyone knows the actual, fact.

 

[JayeNM]

Vikings?



Seriously? Have you ever consciously pondered in the middle of a solo that "other" place? And then found yourself in a beautiful house, with a beautiful wife and a large automobile. And then you ask yourself: How did I get here?

Wait - do you mean "in the middle of a solo during performance do I suddenly wish I was someplace else" ?

That happens during most of my solo attempts, honestly.

And I have not, unfortunately, found myself (idiomatically speaking or otherwise) in a beautiful house, etc......

....I usually just rely on those Slippery People who are gonna see me through.....

 

[JayeNM]

There ought to be a bonus system for people who can use song lyrics, in context, in a post

I manage that once in a while....

...usually it was just one of those things, tho.....