Playing the saxophone Improvisation - Does it suddenly 'click'?

Here's a little ramble. Feel free to ignore it (most have done in the past).

I taught sax for 30 years. Retired 6 years ago. Mostly private tuition but some school stuff. Most of my students were children.

In 30 years virtually all of the kids and most of the adults were completely uninterested in jazz, or any other variety of improvisation. Despite this, i tried with everybody to get them to do at least a little bit of noodling without the dots in front of them. I'd guess at least half of them (probably more) utterly refused. Most of the ones that did try gave up pretty soon. Apparently because they thought they were rubbish at it.

Now, bearing in mind that many of them were complete beginners at sax, why were they perfectly happy to be rubbish at reading but not at not reading? It's as if they expected to be like John Coltrane (who they wouldn't have heard of) from the start. And if they weren't, well then, they were not going to bother.

I should point out that no theory was involved, so they weren't bogged down with chords and scales. All they had to do was to be able to play a few notes. Just one or two to start with, but still most of them wouldn't attempt it.

I've never really understood why. It's practically the exact opposite to how I started. I was improvising as soon as the sax was in my hands.

Anyway, noodling is good. Do it. Listen to what you're doing. Forget about theory, chords, scales and all that stuff - it just clogs your brain. Just play. You'll get better at it.

Here's a little bit of improvisation that isn't jazz.

Exactly the same experience when I taught Nick.
 
Improvisation is composing. Composing is creation.
Some people are full of ideas, trying to get them out.
Some people like the security of following orders.
An improviser's head is a little scatterbrained, jumping here and there between pleasant harmonies, licks that fit, bits from other tunes, how to get out of where you've got yourself, answering phrases from the rhythm section, uh oh, where's the middle eight gone, four bars to resolve and land it, where are we? Oh wait, what, me again?
Being a little OCD with a leaning towards musical turrets syndrome and an inability to keep your feet still, helps. 🤗
 
Thanks for the replies. My teacher learnt similarly just copying records, at music college struggled with the theory, so has a knack of keeping it simple for me to understand.

When I picked up the sax again I didn't really have a direction or plan in mind just going with it, jazz has certainly grown on me.

There's a player in the orchestra who is very good at the theory, their reading & timing is interesting, and solo's are refused, it reinforces that theory can only take you so far.

The eye opener for me was the improvised solo I did at the last concert, other than throwing the Cannonball Trill in, I just winged it with all of 6 notes, afterwards I couldn't tell you what I'd played, or even hum it, just an empty mind and let whatever come out.
 
Thanks but the link reveals this, on an iPhone 13pro
IMG_2686.webp
 
It’s actually a very good word for it imo, and excels in not making it about theory in any way, and keeping things relaxed and without pressure.

It sums up the “have a go”, “play anything, whatever you like, no wrong notes here” idea that is needed for people to even try improvising.

The antithesis is to talk about music majors at Julliard being given the theoretical task of writing a walking bass line.
 
If that's the antithesis, and the thesis is noodling

What's the§ synthesise?
Being able to noodle but include some nice ideas one's practiced from theory or licks etc?

§Using the ideas of the famous Welsh philosopher Di Alectic.
Sorry, don’t understand.

Antithesis: a person or thing that is the direct opposite of someone or something else.
"love is the antithesis of selfishness"

We’re talking about enticing people to have a go in the first place without getting bogged down in theory - scales, licks, modes, patterns etc
 
Sorry, don’t understand

Hegel’s dialectics follows a thesis-antithesis-synthesis pattern, which, when applied to the logic, means that one concept is introduced as a “thesis” or positive concept, which then develops into a second concept that negates or is opposed to the first or is its “antithesis”, which in turn leads to a third concept, the “synthesis”, that unifies the first two...
The clue was is the footnote

A bit highfalutin, but appropriate as the discussion is very This Vs That.
 
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Is it?
Yes.
It’s about a gentle (not scary) introduction to improvisation. It should not require prior study.
Gentle introduction Vs getting bogged down.
http://eddiedanielsclarinet.net/bio.html said:
Eddie began clarinet at age 13 and received his Masters in Clarinet from Juilliard
I wonder how much he knew about noodling with no prior study...
 
The antithesis is to talk about music majors at Juilliard being given the theoretical task of writing a walking bass line.
No theory, or theoretical task, involved in what was written in post #33. A noodlers delight.
Just play the notes given for the arpeggios, over the range of the horn, you can even record, and sing them into memory, and then write a bass line, without you instrument..
Simple stuff taught to 12 year olds and older, bass guitar students, and those who want to learn improvisation/composition, on any instrument.

Is it too close to July 4th for having a sense of humor, for some, on the East side of the Pond? 😀
 
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Similar threads... or are they? Maybe not but they could be worth reading anyway 😀

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