Saxophones Huge Stencil Sax Listing

thomsax

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3,135
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Sweden
#41
"Who made what" , "is it a stencil of a brandholder", "a stencil or second line sax"...... ? I also think this is interesting. And useful as well. I often meet young sax players that says the bought a Martin when it's an Indiana. Indiana can be very good and nice saxes. But sometimes they can pay too much a for second sax. The seller says "The Indiana" is the same as "The Martin". In the saxophone world there was a home industry as well. Saxes were made in the kitchens, woodsheds ..... of skilled sax workers. Stencils?
 

thomsax

Well-Known Member
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3,135
Location
Sweden
#43
Louis Robert was an Amati stencil.

I'm not sure about the late "King Marigaux" saxes. They are not stamped/engraved with "SML" on the bell and in King Musical Instruments, Inc catalog it's : "Built in Paris, France to King specifications". If it was a SML made horn I think it should say: Built by SML, Paris, France to (for) King Musical Instrumental, Inc, specifications". But who cares? It a great saxophone with or without "SML" stamped/engraved on the bell.
 

C11DBE

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9
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United Kingdom
#44
I have been working on putting together a really comprehensive stencil listing for my website. When it is finished, close to 85% of the stencil names will be linked to horns in my gallery.

Before I go to all that linking work however, I was hoping I could get some input from members here to make sure that I didn't make any glaring errors or omissions.

By the time I was done with copy/paste/format etc the Excel tables into my website, I could easily have moved stuff into the wrong columns, or lost columns altogether. Now, I'm so blind by it all, I couldn't see an error if it jumped up and bit me in the ass.

The page can be found here on my website.
If you have a stencil horn not included in this list, please let me know. Thanks!
I have a Broadway stencil , made in Italy 1905 ish baritone , no one has ever heard of this stencil , can you shed some light ? Please Jay
 
Messages
79
#45
I have a Broadway stencil , made in Italy 1905 ish baritone , no one has ever heard of this stencil , can you shed some light ? Please Jay
I need a bit more to go on than the name and a country of origin Jay. There were quite a few saxophone manufacturers in Italy. Can you upload some photos or send them to me via email? If you don't want to upload an image of the serial #, please provide at least the first few digits of the number with the last few X'd out. Also, does the serial # start out with a letter?
 

gladsaxisme

Try Hard Die Hard
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3,339
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manchester
#47
I mentioned some time ago about a couple of horns I have one is a Lindell Tenor and the other is a Paul Cavour Tenor and was wondering if you have ever come across either of them
 

C11DBE

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#48
I need a bit more to go on than the name and a country of origin Jay. There were quite a few saxophone manufacturers in Italy. Can you upload some photos or send them to me via email? If you don't want to upload an image of the serial #, please provide at least the first few digits of the number with the last few X'd out. Also, does the serial # start out with a letter?
Hi Helen
Yeah I understand . Here’s some pics and the Bari is in a tech shop having work done on it and don’t have the serial number to hand but definitely doesn’t have a letter at the front of it.
 

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Messages
546
Location
Mount Erebus, Antarctica
#49
I have been working on putting together a really comprehensive stencil listing for my website. When it is finished, close to 85% of the stencil names will be linked to horns in my gallery.

Before I go to all that linking work however, I was hoping I could get some input from members here to make sure that I didn't make any glaring errors or omissions.

By the time I was done with copy/paste/format etc the Excel tables into my website, I could easily have moved stuff into the wrong columns, or lost columns altogether. Now, I'm so blind by it all, I couldn't see an error if it jumped up and bit me in the ass.

The page can be found here on my website.
If you have a stencil horn not included in this list, please let me know. Thanks!
@helen

Beaugnier definitely made a "Selmer Pennsylvania" alto.

I know this because... I'm a collector with a real weakness for Beaugniers and I've got an example of the above-named horn.

Additionally, here's a more complete list of Dorfler & Jorka stencils. Most of these are already covered by you, but a few aren't:-
  • Boucet
  • Carl Ludwig, Carl Schiller, Clinton, Convair, Condor
  • De Villiers, Diamond
  • H.Genet
  • Impala
  • Jubilee
  • Key Tone, King Tempo
  • La Sete Professional
  • National
  • Original Hopf Classic
  • Pierre Maure Artiste, Paragon
  • Rene Dumont, Rodgers, Roxy
  • Senator, Startone, Skytone, Symphonic
  • The National, Toneline Artist
  • Velvetone, Vitacoustic, Voss
  • Warner Concerto
 
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79
#50
A friend of mine has a Pennsylvania tenor made by Yanigasawa. I can get you further details if it’s of interest to you.
Yes please. I have a listing for a Super Pennsylvania as being made by Yanagisawa, I wonder if it is the same?

I mentioned some time ago about a couple of horns I have one is a Lindell Tenor and the other is a Paul Cavour Tenor and was wondering if you have ever come across either of them
I have heard of both, but at present they are not on my list. I am assuming it's because I never ID'd a maker. If you have photos you could could share, that would be of great help. Thanks!
 

spike

Old Indian
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1,662
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Half way up a hill
#51
According to Günter Dullat - "Saxophone" ISBN 978-3-7959-0926-0 (The book is in German)
Page 137: a rough translation - Up to the beginning of the 1970's Yanagisawa built large quantities of stencils for Selmer >Pennsylvania< for Conn >Continental< and under the name >Martin<
 
Messages
79
#52
Hi Helen
Yeah I understand . Here’s some pics and the Bari is in a tech shop having work done on it and don’t have the serial number to hand but definitely doesn’t have a letter at the front of it.
Mmm... Without a letter in front that rules out Orsi.... Also, the photos more or less rule out Orsi as well. Interestingly enough it is only keyed to high Eb. No chromatic F# or bis Bb. That says student horn to me, since it is not old enough to be an antique horn sans these features.

Italian horns are not my speciality, so I'll have to do a bit of digging to see what I can uncover. R&C perhaps is my first guess, but the word "guess" is key here. ;)
 
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Messages
79
#53
@helen

Beaugnier definitely made a "Selmer Pennsylvania" alto.

I know this because... I'm a collector with a real weakness for Beaugniers and I've got an example of the above-named horn.

Additionally, here's a more complete list of Dorfler & Jorka stencils. Most of these are already covered by you, but a few aren't:-
  • Boucet
  • Carl Ludwig, Carl Schiller, Clinton, Convair, Condor
  • De Villiers, Diamond
  • H.Genet
  • Impala
  • Jubilee
  • Key Tone, King Tempo
  • La Sete Professional
  • National
  • Original Hopf Classic
  • Pierre Maure Artiste, Paragon
  • Rene Dumont, Rodgers, Roxy
  • Senator, Startone, Skytone, Symphonic
  • The National, Toneline Artist
  • Velvetone, Vitacoustic, Voss
  • Warner Concerto
Thank you very much. There were 6 in that list that I hadn't seen before. Now I have 6 more names to search for images of. :)
 
Messages
79
#54
BTW, I just did a massive update to the list 2 days ago. I added over 100 stencil names to all the various brand names.

I didn't update links to galleries however. My website recently moved to a VPS server, and my original gallery "broke". It still works, but I can't upload new content, and old content is fubarred whenever umlauts or other non-English characters are used.

I am currently in the process of redesigning my gallery using a different CMS, and will be also be partnering with another vintage sax gallery owned by a colleague I work very closely with. When completed, there will be close to 100,000 images of vintage, collector, and very rare horns available for you to peruse.
 
Messages
546
Location
Mount Erebus, Antarctica
#56
@helen

Another Beaugnier stencil for you is "Besson".

I've got one of these in my collection. Mine is a tenor in "two-tone" finish, and the design is identical to the Beaugnier "Special Perfect". Like all Beaugniers it's got a lovely sound.

It looks like this, apart from a different engraving. Note the distinctive bell-keys, which have a Selmer SBA vibe to them:-

Beaugnier Special Perfect Tenor Sax
 
Messages
546
Location
Mount Erebus, Antarctica
#57
@helen

I have a Kohlert 57 stencil alto in my collection. It's in "two-tone" finish and the engraving on the front of the bell says:-

Lafleur Artist Model
SOLE DISTRIBUTOR
Boosey & Hawkes
LONDON ENGLAND
FOREIGN


Often, the serial numbers on stencil horns aren't much use re. tracking down the year of production because they can be out of sync. However, when I compared the serial number on this horn to the offical list of Kohlert saxophone production, it came in at (you guessed it!) 1957 - which may or may not be just a coincidence. Whatever, here's a photo of mine:-

Kohlert B&H Stencil Alto Sax.JPG


Having done a careful comparison of my horn against other Winnenden-made Kohlerts, I can tell you that it's identical to this "real" Kohlert 57 alto. In short, everything matches. A rose by any other name would smell just as sweet:-

A "real" Kohlert 57 alto sax
 
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Messages
79
#58
According to Günter Dullat - "Saxophone" ISBN 978-3-7959-0926-0 (The book is in German)
Page 137: a rough translation - Up to the beginning of the 1970's Yanagisawa built large quantities of stencils for Selmer >Pennsylvania< for Conn >Continental< and under the name >Martin<
I hadn't heard of the book before. I just got Dullart's book: Faszination Saxophon a couple of days ago. Now that too is a fabulous book. I will see if I can track down the one you mention.

No problem @helen. Incidentally, the "Selmer Pennsylvania" alto I've got is a stencil of a Beaugnier "Special Perfect". The design is identical to this, but obviously has different engraving:-

Beaugnier special perfect alto sax
@helen

Added to my list.

Another Beaugnier stencil for you is "Besson".

I've got one of these in my collection. Mine is a tenor in "two-tone" finish, and the design is identical to the Beaugnier "Special Perfect". Like all Beaugniers it's got a lovely sound.

It looks like this, apart from a different engraving. Note the distinctive bell-keys, which have a Selmer SBA vibe to them:-

Beaugnier Special Perfect Tenor Sax
Addeded to the list as well.

The bell keys remind me a lot of certain Pierret models as well.

@helen

I have a Kohlert 57 stencil alto in my collection. It's in "two-tone" finish and the engraving on the front of the bell says:-

Lafleur Artist Model
SOLE DISTRIBUTOR
Boosey & Hawkes
LONDON ENGLAND
FOREIGN


Often, the serial numbers on stencil horns aren't much use re. tracking down the year of production because they can be out of sync. However, when I compared the serial number on this horn to the offical list of Kohlert saxophone production, it came in at (you guessed it!) 1957 - which may or may not be just a coincidence. Whatever, here's a photo of mine:-

View attachment 10708

Having done a careful comparison of my horn against other Winnenden-made Kohlerts, I can tell you that it's identical to this "real" Kohlert 57 alto. In short, everything matches. A rose by any other name would smell just as sweet:-

A "real" Kohlert 57 alto sax
Thank you. Added as well.

For European horns the serial #'s of stencils did tend to follow the brand name's serial numbers, so determining age is usually pretty easy. Also, their features tended not to differ much--or at all--from the brand name horns either.

Unlike the American stencil horns that were copies of older models, or were striped down in features, European stencils often had the same--if not more features--than their brand name cousins.
 
Messages
79
#59
Has anyone seen, or better yet, own a Sky saxophone made by Dörfler & Jörka. Not a Skytone, but a Sky.

It will follow the D&J serial number convention and be a 5-digit # likely starting past 10xxx and ending around 18xxx.

Engraving will say: Made In Western Germany. And is located just below the serial # below the right thumb hook.

I have scoured the Net looking for images of this name, but am only coming up with the cheap, Asian junk being sold today. If anyone can help me out, I would be extremely grateful!
 
Messages
546
Location
Mount Erebus, Antarctica
#60
@helen

Yes, I've always found European-made stencils to be 99.9% identical to the originals. The 0.1% comes from the different engraving. As such, European stencil saxophones represent excellent value for money - assuming that you're looking for a really good horn to keep, play and cherish. For example, my Kohlert 57 clone cost me just $60 US dollars - a ridiculously low price. It's definitely a keeper. Unfortunately, if I had that Kohlert overhauled and then tried to sell it then I'd be certain to lose money on the financial outlay. Sad but true. It's all down to lack of brand recognition. I'll certainly have that Kohlert overhauled one day, but not just yet.

I've never encountered a European stencil with a reduced set of features. To all intents and purposes they are the very same horn as their more illustrious siblings. However, just as you say it's a different matter with American stencils - which usually have a deliberately cut-down design e.g. Conn stencils don't have rolled-toneholes and there's no front-F key. That was done to clearly distinguish them from the "true" Conn-badged models - even though Conn stencils sometimes have the tell-tale "Mercedes-Benz" style keyguard.
 
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