Theory & Impro How Would You Write This Bend?

[Pete Effamy]

They are indeed.



They get an MP3 with everything they should theoretically need. The problem I've had since I started writing for others is that I've found good readers won't necessarily bother with the recording; their reading is good enough that they can easily sight-read the score so that's what they do.

I suppose it's not too dissimilar to an actor getting a script for something that's been filmed before who doesn't watch the original film.

I'm going to assume from my limited experience that this isn't exactly an unusual situation as I've seen so many event/wedding bands whose horn sections are, ironically, soulless because it appears that they're happy to just play what's written on the score that they spend the entire show staring at.

It comes from listening Dave. I think I remember rightly that you play bass too: well think what most bass players get - chord symbols. How do you come up with a bass line that fits the style?

 

[rhysonsax]

They are indeed.

They get an MP3 with everything they should theoretically need. The problem I've had since I started writing for others is that I've found good readers won't necessarily bother with the recording; their reading is good enough that they can easily sight-read the score so that's what they do.

Yes, but what is on the mp3 - is that the full band track or just some parts and is it an audio output from notation software / other robot source or is it live musicians who are playing the desired style with all its nuances ?

I think I am getting confused between two different situations.

• Getting the horn section to prepare in advance of band/sectional rehearsals to save a bit of time
• Giving individual horn players the right written music and supporting audio to let them record individually in a lockdown recording session of multiple individual parts to be mixed together

Rhys

 

[Pete Thomas]

I've never been overly fussy that I dictae to musicians exactly what is notated when it comes to bendsd and falls etc.

Just as I wouldn't write every single not for a drummer or comping piano/guitar. I wrote a short piece for the BBC national Orcehstra of wales and wrote choird symbols and gliassdi lines for the harpist - she was very happy about that.

In your analogy above about actors, it's a bit like giving them a script and allowing the good actors to improvise a bit. You'll often get something better if you allow some freedom rather than dictating nuances that won't actually affect sales.

Another thing, how often would you notate how many vibratos per beat you (as composer or arranger) are entitled to ask for but rarely do. (Unless you are Glenn Miller)

 

[Pete Effamy]

Yes I agree. And with knowledge of styles, good (or experienced) horn players will largely play exactly the same as one another even if a part has no markings whatsoever.

 

[Veggie Dave]

• Getting the horn section to prepare in advance of band/sectional rehearsals to save a bit of time
• Giving individual horn players the right written music and supporting audio to let them record individually in a lockdown recording session of multiple individual parts to be mixed together

The original question regarded the second point but it seems to have expanded somewhat.

I've never been overly fussy that I dictae to musicians exactly what is notated when it comes to bendsd and falls etc.

This particular song is one bend that I don't even know if it's possible to play on a trumpet, I just wanted to notate it so that the player would at least know it was to be played if possible.

 

[rhysonsax]

The original question regarded the second point but it seems to have expanded somewhat.



This particular song is one bend that I don't even know if it's possible to play on a trumpet, I just wanted to notate it so that the player would at least know it was to be played if possible.

Given both those answers, can you get the trumpet player to record first and then get that audio into the mix for the other horn players ?

That idea assumes that the trumpet player understands the style required and is able to give a strong lead.

Rhys

 

[Pete Thomas]

This particular song is one bend that I don't even know if it's possible to play on a trumpet,

It's often the case that any kind of tutti effect (as mentioned above re: falls) may not be as tight as you want due to limitations of the instrument. As I said, depending on which note a saxophone player is playing, the ability to bend will be different. A trumpet player may have to half valve to get the actual required bend, which in itself would radically affect the timbre and not be what you want.

So back to my philosophy, write it, but accept the beauty of the possible resulting looseness.

 

[turf3]

Being specific in the score is what I'm struggling with. The bend returns on the third beat of a triplet, which makes sense in the context of the song as it repeats a rhythmic theme.

Is it swing style? If so any competent saxophone section player will play it in swing style.

 

[Veggie Dave]

Given both those answers, can you get the trumpet player to record first and then get that audio into the mix for the other horn players ?

Which brings us back to my initial problem - providing MP3s that people don't listen to. 😉

So back to my philosophy, write it, but accept the beauty of the possible resulting looseness.

That's basically how it works. I'd hate to dictate to someone how they should play, but on the other hand it would be nice if everyone understood that what's on the page is only a part of the performance, too.

 

[rhysonsax]

Which brings us back to my initial problem - providing MP3s that people don't listen to. 😉

When they record themselves they are listening to something - a click track or sampled audio or a rough mix of other players ...

I am suggesting that when doing a collaborative recording project the "leader" of the horn section should record first and that audio gets put into the mix for other players in the horn section for them to hear as they record. If they listened to it in advance for their own practice that would be a bonus !

Rhys

 

[Veggie Dave]

I am suggesting that when doing a collaborative recording project the "leader" of the horn section should record first and that audio gets put into the mix for other players in the horn section for them to hear as they record.

That is what I try to make sure happens but it's not always possible. However, even when there's a lead instrument to follow it doesn't mean they actually listen to it rather than just play precisely what's on the page so that it sounds more like a VST than a real instrument. So often, if it's not written, it's not played.

 

[rhysonsax]

That is what I try to make sure happens but it's not always possible. However, even when there's a lead instrument to follow it doesn't mean they actually listen to it rather than just play precisely what's on the page so that it sounds more like a VST than a real instrument. So often, if it's not written, it's not played.

Blimey.

Rhys