How to learn a new song

[gordonc]

I'm working to learn Smoke Gets in Your Eyes on tenor.

I have a great version on CD by Coleman Hawkins that I love. I also have a real book with a version written for Bb - although the book version is a much simpler melody than the one played by "the hawk"

My question is - what's the best approach for learning this song, or any song for that matter?

The written version is in F major and I've worked out that the CD version is too. I figure to spend a bit of time really nailing the F major scale and its arpegios. Should I try to learn the song by ear or should I use the book first - or a combination of both.

How do you guys go about learning something new?

 

[Bobby G]

Simple answer - by ear.

This is because I don't read music. Well, to qualify that, I can read to the extent that I know what note is what, and note durations, rests etc. What I can't do is sight-read a tune, although I'm sure it's just a matter of practise.

Cheers, Bob

 

[griff136]

If you do want to learn any number whilst reading the dots then take it a phrase or a couple of bars at a time.

for the more difficult passages, play slower and even subdivide the phrasing into groups of say four semiquavers until you have mastered each phrase then add them together piece by piece.

 

[Bobby G]

Also, I guess sight-reading could be improved by following the dots of a tune you actually know anyway.

Cheers, Bob

 

[Linky Lee]

Bob, I'll disagree there.

Most musicians have a strong musical memory and when they can't read the dots too well and play from the dots of a piece they know, they don't actually exercise the brain the way it should, and you do a combination of playing from memory and checking your pitches and rhythms against the dots, ignoring the fact that they are wrong or not because you can't interpret them quick enough.

If you are learning by ear, then it's still the best idea to go phrase by phrase. Start with the bits that are most memorable. Try singing the tune to yourself now and those will be the bits you should workout first.

I like to work stuff out on the piano whilst listening to it and then transposing, but playing back on the sax is better really (I play various instruments in different keys so I normally work things out at concert pitch as for some reason I find transposing from C easier than say Bb to Eb, though it isn't really).

Another method is to learn the pitches of the arpeggios and mark out in some kind of system where they crop up. Then all you have to do is fill the gaps. It will give you an idea of the shape to the phrases as well.

 

[Simon]

Hi Gordon -
Learning the tune by ear would be a great way to go.

However, with 'Smoke gets in your eyes' in concert Eb (a 32 bar AABA tune - handy to know), learning the F Major scale (on tenor) for the head and the C# major scale for the bridge, will help alot. My advice, practice these scales so you have them under your fingers and learn the chord notes (1,3,5) - then, break down the tune into any patterns you can see / hear :

Eg if you look at the first bars of the tune, you might notice that you play F, E, G, F, D then it jumps up to Bb and goes Bb, A, C, Bb, G... as Linky suggested try these at a piano. Notice a pattern? Then a jump to F with a C# in there ("I of COURSE replied")...

(Oh yeah, learning the words helps heaps too - gets you the rhythm and helps to phrase it better)

For me the A sections are F major with a C# in there. The B section is in C#. That's what I'd remember. The bridge to me is very similar to the theme of 'Honeysuckle Rose' too ...

The point I'm trying to make is: sure learn it by ear BUT relate bits of the tune to stuff you already know (including scales). Break it down into 'bite-sized bits' and enjoy the progress you'll make! That's how I learn tunes!

Simon

GordonC wrote:
I'm working to learn Smoke Gets in Your Eyes on tenor.

I have a great version on CD by Coleman Hawkins that I love. I also have a real book with a version written for Bb - although the book version is a much simpler melody than the one played by "the hawk"

My question is - what's the best approach for learning this song, or any song for that matter?

The written version is in F major and I've worked out that the CD version is too. I figure to spend a bit of time really nailing the F major scale and its arpegios. Should I try to learn the song by ear or should I use the book first - or a combination of both.

How do you guys go about learning something new?

 

[gordonc]

Thanks folks - thats all really helpful

 

[Bobby G]

Linky_Lee wrote:
Bob, I'll disagree there.

Most musicians have a strong musical memory and when they can't read the dots too well and play from the dots of a piece they know, they don't actually exercise the brain the way it should, and you do a combination of playing from memory and checking your pitches and rhythms against the dots, ignoring the fact that they are wrong or not because you can't interpret them quick enough.

Thinking about what you said there Lee, you're probably right. Going back to when I was a kid having paino lessons, which was the whole shebang of scales, arpeggios, other exercises and working on various pieces, I was definitely guilty of trying to commit the piece to memory, having learned it from the dots. Once I'd done that, if I got lost or made a mistake while playing the piece I would find it very hard to recover quickly as my sight-reading hadn't developed very well.

Then of course came the demon rock'n'roll music, my first guitar and following songs I knew from chord-sheets - surely at that time a good 50% of budding guitarists had the Learner's Bible a.k.a the Beatles Complete - which meant that my already not-good sight reading more or less faded away. That coupled with a good ear, meaning I never really needed to read has been the case until I took up saxing. I'm sure I could make better progress if I could read, but I don't know if I could love playing any more than I do, plus I'm able now to hold my own at sessions. Just need to find that band..... 🙂

Sorry to ramble, I get like this when I've had an exciting and stimulating evening of jamming

Cheers, Bob

 

[jersey_mike]

This thread leads me to a question.

Is there a way to improve sight-reading music aside from practice? I'm realizing that it's a weak spot for me and I need to work on it. It's a rare thing for new pieces I try to even resemble music the first several times through and can take days of work to get it down.

 

[sharon]

Hi Gordon - I've been trying to learn "Summertime" and getting on OK by learning a bit at a time. I've no musical training but I sort of thought that it is a bit like learning a song or a poem. I read a bit of the music and then try to do it without looking. After a bit my hands sort of remember. It is slow and a bit simplistic but seems to do.

Sharon

 

[Linky Lee]

That's the best way I know of.

Small bits at a time, and you're right your fingers do remember it!

That's why trying to play piece too fast for yourself when learning them does more damage than good. Your fingers remember the mistakes.

 

[tris]

First thing I do is look at the changes... II V I etc.

Chances are that I already know a lot of tunes with the same progression and this sorts the blowing out.

By ear or by the dots... it is up to you both are valid and both work but it depends whether you want to work on ear training or sight reading.

The only way to become a proficient reader is to read and read and read. Anything you can get your hands on, any instrument, any clef. The more you do the easier it gets. it is just like learning to read words, you are learning a written language. It does not happen over night and it takes a bit of work.

Bob, you don't improve your reading by reading tunes you know... or practicing the same tune again and again. You have to approach stuff you don't know.

 

[Rogerb]

One thing my teacher said which seems kinda obvious, but I guess most of us don't do it:
"Don't spend too much time practising the 'easy bits'.... pick out the bars which are giving you trouble and concentrate your efforts there!"

He also said that, to get started on a new tune, it sometimes helps, for some reason, to start with the *last* few bars.... it seems to work for me!

BTW, I agree with simon in that it really helps to know the words!

 

[tris]

Plus picking up tunes is a skill to be practiced just like reading, long tones or running your scales.

The more tunes you learn the quicker and easier it gets to learn new ones. It used to take me week to pick out a Hendrix tune on the guitar.... these days I can pick out something like I was reading a news paper.

I was very bad at learning complete tunes.... only ever picked out the licks etc that I took fancy to. Roger is right.... learning the last 5% of a tune is almost 50% of the work of learning it.

 

[Simon]

Hey Jersey Mike...

What like taking a tablet ? 😉

Nah, sight reading is hard work. I find it's like pattern recognition and decoding all at once and it tends to be one of the first things to 'rust up' if you don't regularly practise it. Back to the woodshed!

Simon

jersey mike wrote:
This thread leads me to a question.

Is there a way to improve sight-reading music aside from practice? I'm realizing that it's a weak spot for me and I need to work on it. It's a rare thing for new pieces I try to even resemble music the first several times through and can take days of work to get it down.

 

[jersey_mike]

That's what I need for sight reading---a tablet!!!!! And a few more for vibrato, accuracy, and tone!


I had about a month of playalong lessons with simple heads to try out improvising (did very well for a beginner I'm told) but in the process lost a lot in the sight reading category. That and the allergies have made the past couple weeks sheer torture on myself and my wife. :x