Theory & Impro How to jazz (or not to jazz)

[Pete Thomas]

For those of you who may have forgotten

 

[ellinas]

It's so funny how classical educators try to approach/understand jazz, while jazz idols practiced Klose.
2 worlds ... ... so distant ....yet .. so interconnected

 

[ellinas]

@Pete Thomas .. I would like to know more about this edition. When was it issued? Country?
Seems like a pre-war USA book.

 

[MikeMorrell]

Great resource Pete and many thanks for this!

I play in an a very amateur Big Band. Our 'sheets' mostly fall into category 1 and occasionally into categories 2 or 3. FWIW, our main challenges in improvement are in:
- (collective) interpretation of 'timing' ('laid back/lazy vs 'driving') in version 1
- (collective) 'timing' of variations in versions 2 and 3.

With your permission, I'll post this overview to my Big Band MD and to other Band members.

 

[rhysonsax]

And nothing on swing ?

Rhys

 

[Pete Thomas]

@Pete Thomas .. I would like to know more about this edition. When was it issued? Country?
Seems like a pre-war USA book.

This is from Eby's Scientific Saxophone Method. I used to have a couple of editions but they went during a decluttering phase. Here is some more

 

[turf3]

Well isn't that just adorable!

I wonder what Sidney Bechet or Louis Armstrong would have thought of that.

 

[Pete Effamy]

Well isn't that just adorable!

I wonder what Sidney Bechet or Louis Armstrong would have thought of that.

Sid would’ve choked on his vibrato.

 

[JayeNM]

For those of you who may have forgotten

Where are the lyrics....?

 

[JayeNM]

It's so funny how classical educators try to approach/understand jazz, while jazz idols practiced Klose.
2 worlds ... ... so distant ....yet .. so interconnected

Has created some great jokes, over time,though....

(Ti kanis, filos mou ?)

 

[ellinas]

Has created some great jokes, over time,though....

(Ti kanis, filos mou ?)

Hello George! ✊

 

[skeller047]

The only thing wrong with these examples is the missing directive to practice these in all 12 keys.

FWIW, that’s a good way to distinguish a classical from a jazz book. The classical approach is to print the same exercise in al 15 keys…

 

[mizmar]

This is from Eby's Scientific Saxophone Method

The same source as

Saxophone Laugh

The laugh is one of the earliest special effects used on the saxophone. It's best not to overdo this, but can have a great comic effect.

tamingthesaxophone.com

?

 

[rhysonsax]

I'm not sure whether this band is getting it right ...

View: https://youtu.be/26TIfLT-1Xk?si=wwAaVgnwn84ddfn4


Rhys

 

[MikeMorrell]

FWIW, our amateur Big Band MD continually reminds us that to get a good 'jazz feel' (and sound), we need to get more used to - intuitively - stressing the 'afternotes' (or 'backbeat') rather than the notes 'on the beat'. Or making no distinction between the two. Most of our scores don't make this explicit. So - according to our MD - this is something we all need to practice. Both by listening to recordings and by playing at home. Until it becomes a habit that becomes 'automatic'.

One of the few scores we play that IMHO illustrates this is the excerpt below from Paul Murtha's arrangement of 'Black Orpheus'. The yellow highlights on the 'afterbeat' stresses are mine for this illustration.

Most Big Band members still find stressing the 'afterbeats' a big challenge and counter-intuitive compared to how they've always played. Yesterday, we decided to spend 10 minutes of each rehearsal just playing some simple exercises with the focus on stressing the 'afterbeat'.

 

[Pete Thomas]

There is a kind unwritten rule

stressing the 'afternotes' (or 'backbeat')

I have never heard of afternotes, but backbeat can be a bit confusing. In my experience the backbeat is the notes on 2 and 4 of e.g. a 4/4 bar as opposed to what you are showing =with the highlighted yellow accents.

ie the backbeat notes are 1/4 notes not 1/8 notes and they are on the beat, just not on beats 1 and 3. To put it another way this is where the snare drum beats go in rock and roll and some jazz/swing (other times it may be the pedalled hi hat marking the backbeat)

In your example I would say rather than backbeat these are accented "ands" of 1/8 notes . I'm not sure if there is a proper technical term for the 1/8th note "ands" of 1 and 2 and 3 and 4 and so I'll call them ands for now.

There isn't really a rule to emphasise the ands in general, but often they can be emphasised - sometimes by so-called "bebop" tonguing that can be used but not necessarily in bebop (and often is very very slight). With faster tempos it becomes less possible.

What your example does illustrate is that an "and" followed be a rest is extremely likely to be accented (almost a rule in this style I'd say). And likewise when another and follows immediately after the 1/8th rest, even when it's long

ie doodat and doodat dah

 

[JayeNM]

There is a kinf unwritten rule

Hey...did you stealv my laptop ?

 

[Pete Effamy]

The "ands" aren't always accented. But when you have a series of 8th notes the last one (even if only two of them) is almost always short. I think, in your example of Black Orpheus, the yellow notes should be shortened rather than accented otherwise it will sound very lumpy. This will give good feel. There is a case for them being slightly pushed a bit, but accent, for me, is the wrong word.
Pete uses the word "doodat" - note the "t" is the clipped ending. It's rarely marked on parts, but interestingly the other 8ths are all marked full value and therefore legato tongued. Correct. The accent would be better written as a staccato dot as far as I'm concerned and the play decides whether to accent (and to what degree).

 

[Pete Thomas]

Pete uses the word "doodat" - note the "t" is the clipped ending.

And it also works if you are cockney so no actual T necessary.