Tech/maintenance Holton Tenor - Rudy Wiedoeft

[MerlesDoor]

I've always wanted to learn to play but was always scared away for one reason or another. With the power of disposable income, I pulled the trigger on this saxophone and now I'm wondering if I should let the regret set in or not.

In the pictures, it seemed to be in okay condition but on a closer look and messing of the keys, it'll definitely need work. My mom says I'm a bit smarter than the average bear, but is it worth it to put all this work into it?

The serial number is 40210.

 

[MerlesDoor]

Here are some more pictures, I'm limited to 2 since it's my first post. @PigSquealer I've read on other forums that you're super knowledgeable about these horns. I've tried reading on them as well but all the links in the old forums go to dead pages 🙁

 

[turf3]

That's an unusual horn. The finish - bright brass and nickel plate keys - implies 1950s, but it has the special keywork of a 1920s Holton Rudy Wiedoeft model, including the double-vented low D. Show us the engraving and a couple close-ups of the tone holes. If it's been refinished from the usual matte silver plate, someone spent a lot of money and time having it done.

 

[PigSquealer]

I've always wanted to learn to play but was always scared away for one reason or another. With the power of disposable income, I pulled the trigger on this saxophone and now I'm wondering if I should let the regret set in or not.

In the pictures, it seemed to be in okay condition but on a closer look and messing of the keys, it'll definitely need work. My mom says I'm a bit smarter than the average bear, but is it worth it to put all this work into it?

The serial number is 40210.

Welcome to the Café.
Your serial number dates to late 1931 early 1932. What you have is a New Revelation. This is the reason it lacks the Rudy Model banner on side of bell
Small differences between them. Like your sax upper palm keys have the foot stop as part of the key. The front F touch is pearl and pinky G# is rectangular not round.

To answer you question about being worthy to invest time or money. These IMHO play well. If you’re just starting out playing it wouldn’t be my first suggestion to learn on. At minimum have it oiled and play condition serviced. Give it a go for a few months.
If you’re not enjoying playing or have tested other tenors / altos more suited. Sell it. If you like it then have a repad service done.

This is a Rudy below.

 

[JayeNM]

Weidoefts USUALLY had the round pearl G#. Yours, @MerlesDoor , has a rectangular metal one.

Does the engraving read "Weidoeft" on it ? Or did seller just claim it to be ?

If it DOES, it gotta be the last of the Weidoefts, transitioning to Revelation.

If serial puts it as a New Rev....better for you.

Next subject....

Maaan, why you go and buy an unplayable sax with someone's "disposable income" ? Unless you paid under $500 for this, you paid too much. $575 and a decent effort at boning up on how to buy a used sax, could have delivered you a horn of good repute...in good play shape.

Next subject....

You did it, so situation is what it is. On bright side

1) Holtons are good saxes. IMHO just as good as Conns, Marins, Bueschers of their time.

2) Yours appears to be in OK shape...not trashed, not full of nasty finish wear, etc

On the Meh side

A) If she doesn't play cleanly she needs tech attention

B) Most techs upon laying eyes on a non-playing Holton from the 30's are gonna probably make you feel pretty bad (far more bad than my reply here may be making you feel, 😂 )
They will say 'not worth fixing' or 'repair cost will exceed the horn's value' or such.
Some may flat out say 'I don't wanna work on this sax'

C) if seller sold it as playable and it is not....he/she lied. Which stinks, eh ?

 

[JayeNM]

So now....where do you go from here ?

If it was an eFlay or Reverb.com purchase, and the listing noted it as playing condition, you can return it for a refund...even if seller does not agree.

If nowhere does it say "horn is playabe/in play shape', etc....then you have no argument based on it not playing up and down.

Is it 'worth fixing' ? Well....only way to find out....bring it to a repair tech, tell them you just wanna invest enough into it to get it reasonably playable. See what numbers they come back with. If it is $400usd equiv or under, then the tech isn't being a bad person. Probably worth going that route.

Are you in US ? or UK ?

I am a Holton aficionado as well...and a tech....I have a soft spot for Holtons.
Revelations are GOOD TENORS. I mean...plain Good. Not 'ok', not 'myeah...respectable enuff....'

I can likely get that puppy cleaned and playing respectably and reliably for around $300 maybe a bit less...keeping in mind r/t ship will add around $75-100. Mind you, not talking a complete refurbishment, just a cleaning and an 'attend to the high priority things to get her responding well so the owner isn't fighting the horn'.

If you want more than that, then it would probably cost a bit more...

So that might save you some significant $ over local repair options...

Hope this helps....

 

[MerlesDoor]

So now....where do you go from here ?

If it was an eFlay or Reverb.com purchase, and the listing noted it as playing condition, you can return it for a refund...even if seller does not agree.

If nowhere does it say "horn is playabe/in play shape', etc....then you have no argument based on it not playing up and down.

Is it 'worth fixing' ? Well....only way to find out....bring it to a repair tech, tell them you just wanna invest enough into it to get it reasonably playable. See what numbers they come back with. If it is $400usd equiv or under, then the tech isn't being a bad person. Probably worth going that route.

Are you in US ? or UK ?

I am a Holton aficionado as well...and a tech....I have a soft spot for Holtons.
Revelations are GOOD TENORS. I mean...plain Good. Not 'ok', not 'myeah...respectable enuff....'

I can likely get that puppy cleaned and playing respectably and reliably for around $300 maybe a bit less...keeping in mind r/t ship will add around $75-100. Mind you, not talking a complete refurbishment, just a cleaning and an 'attend to the high priority things to get her responding well so the owner isn't fighting the horn'.

If you want more than that, then it would probably cost a bit more...

So that might save you some significant $ over local repair options...

Hope this helps....

Fret not, it was my own disposable income and for $300 I guess I did okay? From the looks of it, it doesn't seem to be too difficult to take apart and with some good note taking I may even be able to put it back together lol.
I'm in Dallas, TX and I'll be sure to check around with a few technicians to see what the prevailing opinions are about it, but I think I'd like to take a crack at it and see how it goes.
If I ever realize I'm over my head I'll be sure to mail you a box of loose parts haha 🙂 I guess expect more questions and threads from me but I'll be sure to scour the internet before I bother yall with mundane questions

 

[Tuppertn]

I can likely get that puppy cleaned and playing respectably and reliably for around $300 maybe a bit less..

Hope this helps....

If I ever realize I'm over my head I'll be sure to mail you a box of loose parts haha 🙂 I guess expect more questions and threads from me but I'll be sure to scour the internet before I bother yall with mundane questions

If you really want to learn sax repair then...great. Go for it. It is very satisfying but there's quite a lot to learn. There's also A LOT of art and finesse in vintage saxophone repair that takes time and patience to grasp. It's a bit like doing surgery. The surgeon knows what the books say, but every human is different so every surgery is a unique set of puzzles and potential pitfalls.

If you want to get the thing playing ASAP then George is offering a heckuva deal there. He's not blowing smoke up yer patootie, either. He did an alto for me a while back and it turned out great.

 

[JayeNM]

Fret not, it was my own disposable income and for $300 I guess I did okay? From the looks of it, it doesn't seem to be too difficult to take apart and with some good note taking I may even be able to put it back together lol.
I'm in Dallas, TX and I'll be sure to check around with a few technicians to see what the prevailing opinions are about it, but I think I'd like to take a crack at it and see how it goes.
If I ever realize I'm over my head I'll be sure to mail you a box of loose parts haha 🙂 I guess expect more questions and threads from me but I'll be sure to scour the internet before I bother yall with mundane questions

Ok, good to hear, so you paid its value. That was NOT a bad buy...for someone prepared to put some $ into repairing it.

You may be able to find a DFW area repairer to get it cleaned and playing for $350 or under...if you do, take them up on it...

If you don't, I am in NM, ship to DFW for a tenor is only like $35-40 each way. So I can help you out here if no tech there comes in reasonable.

I too applaud anyone wanting to get into instrument repair. The thing I alert them to is this, though...

1) tooling up and buying materials is not gonna be like $30. You need to buy some specific instrument tech tools...pliers, files, springpullers, mallets, calipers, leak light,, small anvil...in addition to shellac, pads, corks, felts, etc.
So right there is a good $200+ investment. This does not include any dent repair tools, nor does it include a bench motor...both of which together will add a good $750 for the most rudimentary setups.

2) doesn't matter how mechanically inclined one is, it takes trial and error to get sax repair right. You can follow directions to a tee, be really careful...and if you are lucky - the first, second, and third horns you work on...may initially play...ok...but will keep going out of regulation so need repeated revisiting.
Not being a naysayer, just saying. Most DIYers report this. It takes 4-6 horn projects before one really starts to 'get it' and dial-in things.

3) as @Tuppertn notes, the DIY will take longer to get the sax up and playing than a pro tech service would. So only you can answer what that priority is. You wanna get the horn in your mouth and blow asap ? Or can you cool your heels for a few months while you stock up supplies, do some repair research, then jump in trial & error ?

So just pointing this out.

Counterargument would be...you make the $300-800 investment in tools and supplies, those tools will last you a long time so once you reach horn #4 or 5, the investment has paid for itself.

Keep us posted, good luck, again Revelations are darn good vintage saxes.

 

[PigSquealer]

@MerlesDoor have you any saxophone playing experience ? Does it play at all now ?
First tool to invest in would be a leak light. A tool every player should own. The most basic diagnostic tool that’s cheap and easy to use. Great for making informed decisions on service needs.

From the looks of it, it doesn't seem to be too difficult to take apart….

Your first repair mistake. Many books & University of YT videos are short of small details. Damage can occur from incorrect disassembly techniques.
Your purchase cost with a decent case was reasonable. If a decent mouthpiece was included, even better.

 

[Woodpad]

A saxophone like this is made with technology from before 1900 so it looks simple. But as there are lots of tiny details you have to first find out which problems you have to solve.
As you want to learn to play, you need a good closing sax. A leak light is a good way to check, a led strip also works. Counting from the corked site the seventh pad needs to be closed by hand. The first six should be closed by a spring. Look on the net which finger is used for which key. Do not press too hard or too soft. Somewhere between 20 and 100 gram ( if in doubt use a scale to check your fingers). When you find a leak mark it on the key cup.

You see that there are a lot of small steps. After every problem you find and solve you have to find out which problem is next. Good luck.

 

[MerlesDoor]

So now....where do you go from here ?

If it was an eFlay or Reverb.com purchase, and the listing noted it as playing condition, you can return it for a refund...even if seller does not agree.

If nowhere does it say "horn is playabe/in play shape', etc....then you have no argument based on it not playing up and down.

Is it 'worth fixing' ? Well....only way to find out....bring it to a repair tech, tell them you just wanna invest enough into it to get it reasonably playable. See what numbers they come back with. If it is $400usd equiv or under, then the tech isn't being a bad person. Probably worth going that route.

Are you in US ? or UK ?

I am a Holton aficionado as well...and a tech....I have a soft spot for Holtons.
Revelations are GOOD TENORS. I mean...plain Good. Not 'ok', not 'myeah...respectable enuff....'

I can likely get that puppy cleaned and playing respectably and reliably for around $300 maybe a bit less...keeping in mind r/t ship will add around $75-100. Mind you, not talking a complete refurbishment, just a cleaning and an 'attend to the high priority things to get her responding well so the owner isn't fighting the horn'.

If you want more than that, then it would probably cost a bit more...

So that might save you some significant $ over local repair options...

Hope this helps....

Like a bad joke the weekends I had planned for it just got taken away because we lost a guy at work 🙁

So now....where do you go from here ?

If it was an eFlay or Reverb.com purchase, and the listing noted it as playing condition, you can return it for a refund...even if seller does not agree.

If nowhere does it say "horn is playabe/in play shape', etc....then you have no argument based on it not playing up and down.

Is it 'worth fixing' ? Well....only way to find out....bring it to a repair tech, tell them you just wanna invest enough into it to get it reasonably playable. See what numbers they come back with. If it is $400usd equiv or under, then the tech isn't being a bad person. Probably worth going that route.

Are you in US ? or UK ?

I am a Holton aficionado as well...and a tech....I have a soft spot for Holtons.
Revelations are GOOD TENORS. I mean...plain Good. Not 'ok', not 'myeah...respectable enuff....'

I can likely get that puppy cleaned and playing respectably and reliably for around $300 maybe a bit less...keeping in mind r/t ship will add around $75-100. Mind you, not talking a complete refurbishment, just a cleaning and an 'attend to the high priority things to get her responding well so the owner isn't fighting the horn'.

If you want more than that, then it would probably cost a bit more...

So that might save you some significant $ over local repair options...

Hope this helps....

We lost a guy at work so the weekends I thought I would have to dedicate to learning just got obliterated. I figured I would start today but the sun got to me and I'm dead tired.

With the overtime I'm about to get I think I might just send it out to you and throw some more money in the hat for the other fixes you may come across. Do you want me to reach out through the 2nd ending website or is there another way you want me to get in touch for the details?

 

[Hoosierken]

Fret not, it was my own disposable income and for $300 I guess I did okay? From the looks of it, it doesn't seem to be too difficult to take apart and with some good note taking I may even be able to put it back together lol.
I'm in Dallas, TX and I'll be sure to check around with a few technicians to see what the prevailing opinions are about it, but I think I'd like to take a crack at it and see how it goes.
If I ever realize I'm over my head I'll be sure to mail you a box of loose parts haha 🙂 I guess expect more questions and threads from me but I'll be sure to scour the internet before I bother yall with mundane questions

I doubt that you will have any trouble getting your money back.

 

[Hoosierken]

I have a Weidoff alto that plays very good. It is a bit ugly as someone has put some sort of silver paint on it to cover up the damage to its silver plating. While not the prettiest sax it performs well. I have a Cmel that is the same as a Weidoff without the banner but it does not play as well as my 1925 Holton. I repadded and corked myself and it seems a bit loose to me. It needs someone like Pigsquealer to straighten it out.

 

[PigSquealer]

@PigSquealer I've read on other forums that you're super knowledgeable about these horns. I've tried reading on them as well but all the links in the old forums go to dead pages 🙁

What links are you interested in ? Some have different URL’s now. The other place has operational issues too.
Send me a DM if you like.

 

[PigSquealer]

I have a Weidoff alto that plays very good. It is a bit ugly as someone has put some sort of silver paint on it to cover up the damage to its silver plating. While not the prettiest sax it performs well. I have a Cmel that is the same as a Weidoff without the banner but it does not play as well as my 1925 Holton. I repadded and corked myself and it seems a bit loose to me. It needs someone like Pigsquealer to straighten it out. View attachment 36405

Text me for review time on phone. Probably a small detail correction that’s needed.

 

[PigSquealer]

@JayeNM I thought that you closed up 2nd Ending and retired this last year? I can still view your site but it doesn’t look like it’s been active / updated since 2010 ? Your DM mailbox is full.

 

[Tuppertn]

Like a bad joke the weekends I had planned for it just got taken away because we lost a guy at work 🙁

Probably just misplaced. Organize a search party or something. He can't have gotten far...

Where'd you see him last?

 

[JayeNM]

Probably just misplaced. Organize a search party or something. He can't have gotten far...

Where'd you see him last?

No, man still here, still active.