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High notes and how to do it

I love the advice here. I recently struggled while playing Tuxedo Junction, going from G to E and just kept honking. When I'd first tackled that tune I'd had no problem.
Still don't know precisely what the problem was as I'm now having no trouble with it, but one thing I have learned is that I must stop meddling with mouthpieces for now, as you experienced players have said.
This morning I recorded myself playing the same 2 tunes on 3 different mouthpieces. I haven't played them back yet, but I found the mouthpiece that felt best and achieved a tone and volume that sounded good is the one that came with the sax...... I've tried 3 others, but I'm going to stick with my oldie.
 
The Gonzalez have not turned up yet so back to a Rico plasticised 3. I am ashamed to say that I think I am guilty of a big stupidity here. I have always assumed that the palm notes should just happen, the same way the upper octave notes do. I never have had any particular trouble with them when I make a dash up there to be clever in playing a bit of this and that. However, this number calls for an extended stay and good control and I do believe that I have to learn these notes as well as I have done the low ones. I dont believe they will take as long, but there is good advice here from a number of people and I have been following it. I have been fine at home, not very powerfull on the high F# but a nice even note and sort of ok but weedy. Yesterday at band practice the palm notes closed up on me. I dont amplify for practice so had to blow a bit to get above the band, and euurrchh notes closed up.

I have read over the advice posted here, thanks v much.I can see that if I work at it as I did for the low notes, who knows what the end result may be. I hope for much stronger, much more reliable and more pleasing sounds.

Mike
 
So, the Gonzalez have still not turned up but a 3.25 Legere has and its fine. I have been working at feeling for these notes, trying whatever it is that makes them happen, just as I did low down. I have a great deal of strength in the notes when I choose and when I sound them, which is most often in practice but only about 50% of the time when I play the piece. Surprised by the power I can get into these high notes. Never really analysed what I am doing before, never needed to. Still, must persevere to hit the palm F more reliably. Maybe there is an alternative fingering but I will stick with this, it is possible to achieve and I dont find the palm keys awkward or difficult to mange.

On another matter, somewhere here I referred to the triplets in this number. They arent, they are quintuplets and are another fine example of what practice will achieve. When I started to play this I was lamentably slow and thought I may have had to embarrass myself by playing only four of them instead of eight and hoping no one noticed. Now I am full speed with them. I was curious about them so I read up on Wikipedia. I am afraid that there is so much info on there that I am, at this moment, better off not cluttering up with it. Learned to call this type of thing tuplets though, which will make me sound clever unless someone thinks I mean triplets. Whatever, they are fast but with practice, it always seems to work.

Hoping for a Gonzalez day but as its hospital progress check today it will more likely be a Gonzo day.
Mike
 
Most of the sound comes from what is behind the reed. Listen to the sound you want and when you are doing the long tones, try and emulate that sound as best you can. Energy in top notes? Not sure what you are trying to say here
 
The power is just the quantity of the air, also the volume in decibels, that I can get on the palm key notes once they are sounded. I have never tried these things out comprehensively, never supposed I could make so much noise with a palm key note. Not always wanted or desirable but can be very strong.

kevgermany said:
Sounds to me as if you're clamping down on the reed with your lips to get the higher notes. Stability comes from changing te airflow with your tongue and voicing the notes. Try whistling these high notes, work out....
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Yes, I am pressing pretty hard with my bottom lip. But this morning I checked throughout the range and I seem to do it all accross from the pinky keys to the palms. I tried to stop it but hey presto, no notes at all. I am going to practice again in five, will run over all this again.

All the best
Mike
 
Depending on your mpce opening, you may be playing a reed strength that your air support isn't ready for yet. 3.25 Legere is not an easy reed to get moving without a solid fast airstream.

The usual incorrect solution is to bite down on the reed, thereby limiting its ability to vibrate and really limiting the sound palette.
 
jbtsax said:
@jeremyjuicewah Great solo. You nailed the sound and the style for that tune. Very exciting playing. That demonstrates once again that you don't need to play all the notes---just the right ones.
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Would love that that was me. It wasnt. It was Chuck Flores. Posted it to show the strength and control that the guy has in those high notes. Thats what I am aiming for. Things have got a lot better, but not that good.

Cheers
Mike
 
Jazzaferri said:
Depending on your mpce opening, you may be playing a reed strength that your air support isn't ready for yet. 3.25 Legere is not an easy reed to get moving without a solid fast airstream.

The usual incorrect solution is to bite down on the reed, thereby limiting its ability to vibrate and really limiting the sound palette.
Click to expand...

One reason why I am trying so many reeds. Have been from Rico 2 to V12 3.5 to V21 4.0 from Legere 2.25 to 3.5. Frankly, until I get to the absurd (the V21 4) they are all about the same for success rate in first time hitting of the high F.

What I have found is that where I used to find the weaker reeds gave a really poor sound, its no longer the case. I can make these reeds work for me much better now. The best for me is probably the Legere 3.25. But I have an awful lot of reeds in my box so I do change them about a bit. For years I stuck with one reed then discovered that the reed really can change the sound, so I started to experiment.

I am not biting down on the reed, but am applying a lot of pressure with my bottom lip. I tried last night to slacken this off and found that taking Kevs advice to form a whistling type of embouchure, I could slacken that lip and improve my first time hit rate. I stress this first time hit rate because when I have hit the note nice and clean, I can do it again and again and again. Go away for ten minutes and that certainty is no longer there. I dont find this practice nearly as demoralising as my early attempts at low Bb to Low C#, but its a game alright.

I am off work for a couple of weeks and caught myself yesterday spending two hours on this. I am happy to see some progress and actually cant wait to get at it today. Best give it a minute or so though,herself is still asleep as its only ten to six here.

Beach this morning, Tequila later, headache tomorrow?
Mike
 
Actually, the foregoing is not quite true, about the best reed being a Legere 3.25. This one is not best for me all accross the range. From top to bottom its probably the 2.75. Yesterday I was solely practicing with palm keys. Will go up and down today to see that I can cover all and see what is best.

On this, worth mentioning that six months ago I could not have played my low notes at all with the 3.25. Would have to have been a weaker reed than that. This is with the PPT, which I think is a 7 and was not an easy mpc for me to get into on tenor. The alto and bari are much less demanding, but the tenor model pretty much does what it says about being the only mpc I will ever need. Until the next one.
 
Yeah, I know I may be the only person reading this but from day to day the changes are surprising me. Did a half hour this morning and used two reed strengths to see which suited. Not much dif really, but as is pretty normal for me, I began with some long notes up high to get the thing working properly, then went to the low notes for the same excercise and went straight into them instead of the usual warbling on C# and C for the first few times. So the long notes at the top help the long notes at the bottom. I do not know why. Got my high F ok, not every time though, so I will be keeping at it, but also got amazing growl on the palm D. Havent been able to make that happen before. Really beefs up the tone. I think this number uses fluttertongue, but I just cant seem to do it so I usually rely on growl and did not think it worked well up in those registers, it does. Who knows, I may get it on the F soon.

I apologise in advance for keeping you posted, but I will.
 
jeremyjuicewah said:
Would love that that was me. It wasnt. It was Chuck Flores. Posted it to show the strength and control that the guy has in those high notes. Thats what I am aiming for. Things have got a lot better, but not that good.

Cheers
Mike
Click to expand...
Sorry, I misunderstood the reason for the post. As I read more in this thread, I really think the emphasis needs to be more on the playing fundamentals than trying different reed strengths. Brass players have a saying, "You need to be able to play low in order to play high". Essentially that means that the volume of air and open feeling inside the mouth and throat required to play the lowest notes also help to play in the upper register. The upper register just takes air that goes faster.

In some cases, I have had my students play low Bb as a long tone as loud as they can several times and then tell them to use the same embouchure and volume of air and then play the palm key notes starting with D. The only difference is that the air goes faster.

In my own playing my upper notes always sounded thin and "pinched off". Then I heard a recording of the piece I was working on by Marcel Mule. His high notes had a big, full, "singing" sound---much like an opera singer sings the high notes in an aria. Just that "singing" concept helped me to open up, use more air and sound more like him.
 
jbtsax said:
Sorry, I misunderstood the reason for the post. As I read more in this thread, I really think the emphasis needs to be more on the playing fundamentals than trying different reed strengths
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The thing with the reed strengths is this. Its not for fun, its because I am not yet sure what is the right one for me. I used Rico 3 plasticised for years with my Link mpc. Now I have the PPT and am comfy with it, I have not really come down on one reed above another. I will find it I am sure, but your post above is very helpfull indeed. I will give that a go tomorrow. I am not hopeless on these notes and I could get the palm F everytime by quickly running up from C#, but I know I have to figure this one out so I will keep at it.
 
Jazzaferri said:
I have settled on Signature 2 3/4 for tenor and will order one for my now alto mpce. Seem to work really well with PPT and are firm enough to give me good altissimo control
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I like the 2.75 too, my 3.0 was damaged beyond repair when it got nipped in a reed case, and 3.25 is fine but too hard for me at the low end. It occurred to me last night that one of the reasons why I am now a bit of a floating reed type is that my range is expanded. I did not used to use below D1 at all, or above D3 for that matter, except for a mad dash up the palm keys now and then, but now I regularly use right down to the bottom and no doubt now I am on the case will soon be regularly using right up top and hopefully then the elusive altissimo. I could kick myself for not bringing in the full range of this thing from day one. To incorporate into scales the full range must be good move from the earliest days, why did I not do that and why did my teacher not make me?
 

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