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High notes and how to do it

jeremyjuicewah

jeremyjuicewah

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Still practicing my low notes but have been driven to the other end of the thing by the need to play Tequila. I am pretty sure I have it down ok, even the triplets wil be ok by next Monday, but I have a problem with the high bit. High F on the palm keys. My high notes are always a bit weedy, so typically I will try to work with a harder reed if I know I have to play up there. So I settled on an old mpc with a very close tip with a hard reed. V12 - 3 and 3.5. Not bad, but much leaping of this note into some altissimo pitch, not good. Also a lot of whistling. Worse with a softer reed.

Then I tried various reeds with my PPT. The harder ones worked well but the surprise has been the V21 - 4 which is a monster reed and been so much too much that I have even tried to give them away. I can now play this number with this very hard reed and with the PPT it will whisper or it will absolutely ROAR!!!!! Lovely sound. Better than all others on the palm key sequence too, but I need to inject some effect into it. Fluttertongue is proving a bit beyond me. I can do it on an old neck and mpc set up in the car, but not for real.

Also, though much better than any other set up I have tried, its still prone to leaping into altiissimo. I need to stop this and get control of these notes. Its just four bars spoiling this very simple but effective piece.

Any advice, comments, more than welcome.

I have not got to grips with altissimo yet. Thought I had better get the hang of all the other notes first. I know what it is and that a small tip and hard reed or wide tip and soft reed will get it, but I dont actually want it in this number so I am not trying to get it, I am trying not to get it. Ha ha, if you get me.

Cheers
Mike
 
I'd stop chopping and changing mouthpieces and reeds till you have mastered the full range of the instrument. I feel you're confusing your embouchure. Different facing curves need to be voiced differently. Different tip openings need different oral cavity and air stream. Pick one that works and is easy throughout the whole range and stick to it till it all feels effortless. The right set up for your very individual physiognomy will be a pleasure to play and will whisper or honk on the low notes and sing or sigh up top. It's all about matching up of you and the kit.
 
I'd go a step further than @Colin the Bear. You can't find your ideal setup until you have a solid base to work from. Pick a farily middle-of the road set up and stick with it until it is comfortable throughout the range. Make it work. Then you can start figuring out what's best for you individually.
 
It is all about the journey, is it not? No,not really. Believe me, when I find that perfect set up I will never stray by as much as a hundredth of a thou on reed or mpc. Less than that. Meanwhile, what sounds good has to be worth a try. I will get there.
Ta all
 
If you keep chopping and changing you will never get there imho. Pick something that works and develop your chops. You will sound very much the same on any set up once you get used to it. What you're experiencing is playing one set up with the chops from another. When you feel you can do more than the set up, it's time to change.

Having said that, if you're having some success with the PPT, stick with that and try various different reeds. I can't remember ever reading a poor review of the PPT. Sticking with it will allow you to explore its subtleties and nuances. Remember though that you can only do what you can do. With much daily practice this becomes a little more.
 
If there are any shortcuts to gaining control in the extremes of the registers, I haven't found them yet. A traditional method of gaining control up to palm F is to begin on C3 and approach it chromatically using full volume. When the F sounds solid, then hold it as a long tone for as long as you can. The next step is to approach it up the F scale from an octave lower, and the last step is to work on coming in on that note at different dynamic levels.
 
Colin the Bear said:
Having said that, if you're having some success with the PPT, stick with that and try various different reeds. I can't remember ever reading a poor review of the PPT. Sticking with it will allow you to explore its subtleties and nuances. Remember though that you can only do what you can do. With much daily practice this becomes a little more.
Click to expand...

PPT Tenor has been much more struggle than bari or alto, though the tenor sax in itself I find more of handfull than the others. I changed from Link to PPT, dont use the Link much now, but still have a tendency to overblow on the PPT, which is most likely the root of the prob. than started this. I have just finished practice using PPT with different reeds, a stiffer reed is the only one that makes the sound I like up high, and I have better control today on the palm keys by not overblowing. I do not think that right now I could use the reed I used today down on the pinky keys, but I think with practice I will be able to. I dont mind a weaker reed if I am only making the odd visit up high, but my high notes with a weaker reed are not strong and not the soudn I want. I really havent estalished a set up I like yet. I was ok for years with the Link, I used a 3 Rico plasticised for everything, but wasnt much for going to the pinkys in those days. Prefer the PPT and for maybe as much as a year have been working with it to find the best set up. Maybe its not the best mpc for me, but its the best I have tried yet, and I am much much better with it than I used to be.

I know that all of my troubles stem from not being a good enough player, but I go on and sometimes I surprise myself. Hope it continues.
 
I'd go with what Colin said (as usual?).
Had a gig yesterday, couldn't get any high note during rehearsals but they came smooth during the gig, it was all stress-related. But then I know myself and tend to be more stressed at rehearsals (especially when it's pretty much the only one you get to have). After that, I don't give a flying whatever...
Regarding V21s, although they tend to be (much) harder than other brands and although I usually quite dislike Vandoren reeds, those ones seem to be good for me. I've been given a couple of 3 ones, and while I'd usually play 2 or 2.5, I manage to get a very good sound out of them (on alto). Takes a bit of air but they're definitely good. I suppose 2.5 would be fine for me. That said, they're marketed for classical players but I think they're better than the blue boxes.
 
The V21s were a purchasing error. I was exploring. Have started with Legere Sig, but the 3 is not hard enough at the top end though brilliant lower down. I am sure I will adapt myself to things. Particular piece, Tequila, requires some gusto up on the palm keys, some growl or fluttertongue and thats where I am coming unstuck. Today was better than yesterday though, just need to keep that going.
 
Have a try with some Gonzalez RC (regular cut) I find them hard at the top and soft at the bottom. Strange reed. You can lean on them and howl or pull right back and murmur. They last ages too.

Growl isn't flutter tongue. Just say Grrrr from the back of the throat and adjust the volume to get just the right level of interference with the reed.
 
I will try the reed. Ta. No, I know growl isnt fluttertongue. Fluttertongue is what I want to do, but I cant do it, certainly not up that high. I can get some growl into the palm key notes but its hard on the throat up there. I couldnt do fluttertongue at all so I started carrying a chewed up old neck around (Ads mama had him teething on it I think) and an old mpc and getting at it now and then in the car and I can do it pretty well now. Except on the real thing, of course. I imagine I will get there, I usually do.

Ta for the tip on the reed.
 
Jazz Select, Rico/D'addario work well on the PPT.

Sounds to me as if you're clamping down on the reed with your lips to get the higher notes. Stability comes from changing the airflow with your tongue and voicing the notes. Try whistling these high notes, work out where your tongue is, what it's doing, then do the same with the sax in your mouth.
 
I'm making progress on high notes by relaxing my embouchure, much as @kevgermany suggests

Less pressure on the reed seems to allow a fuller sound. You then have to find ways of adjusting la bouche to hit the notes

I understand the usefulness of stiffer reeds for higher notes, but for me as reeds get stiffer there's a crossover point at which I have to push hard bring the reed close enough to the mouthpiece tip to get any notes at all. So then I'm back to losing the quality; and the low notes

My latest ploy has been to see how soft, rather than how hard, I can play. Legere reed (for reliability) Signature 2.0 and 2.25 on tenor Ponzol and PPT respectively seem good. Just like @Chilli the high notes are there, including some altissimo, if I'm not too tense

I like the idea of structured exercise so if I can discipline myself away from endless noodling I'll try @jbtsax 's suggestion of approaching and holding
 
To play high you have to think low. High notes come from your toes, same as low notes. No pushing, no straining, no biting. Change the volume of the oral cavity with the tongue but leave the throat open down to your toes. If that makes any sense at all.
 
Spend 15-30 min a day on long tones and overtones. Sigurd Rascher's Top Tones for Saxophone is the standard reference and can usually be found as a free download.

Long tones should go from pp to ff and have full sound and correct intonation at all levels. The only way I know if to get control. Having switched recently to a PPT 11 I am back to spending 15 - 20 minutes a day on these exercises and will continue to do so for several months.
 
It went nearly as fast as it came upon me. So last night I was at the tenor again. I have gone back to PPT with a 3 Legere signature which I like. I will stick with this for now. I thought I was making good progress till I put on the Champs Tequila and listened again. There is so much energy in that guys top notes that it leaves me feeling like a limp wristed arm wrestler in a biker bar. That is, not very clever a all. I will go at it again tonight. I ordered some of the Gonzalez RC to see how they go. They wont put me right but I am always looking for the reed that is more righter than wot I am using now.

I will get at it again later after work, its a trial this one, it just doesnt sound right if its woossey.
 

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