Help with 8ve key

[darrell]

Hello all. I love this site! I think I'll stay awhile.

So here's my issue:

I am learning how to use the 8ve key, and it seems to be working OK--right up to the point where I'm trying to play below an E. As I work down the scale, from B A G F E... the notes all descend in value, except the E goes UP instead of down!

I'm working out of "Absolute Beginners Alto Saxophone" http://www.amazon.com/Absolute-Beginners-Alto-Saxophone/dp/0711974322

The exercises seem appropriate for my beginner level, but I get stuck when trying to use the octave key in this fashion.

The saxophone is a beginner alto sax--this could very well be the issue. I got it pretty cheap to see if I liked playing (which I do!). So I ordered a Yamaha Custom Z, it should arrive soon. I'm a big fan of the way the Japanese build things. They rarely/never produce items with defects.

I don't have an instructor-- I know I should get one, but I live in an isolated part of Japan, and a sax instructor is rare here. Would anyone be willing to take me on as a student over the internet? (i.e. I post or email my sloppy playing and you critique it)

In the meantime, I've read "The Art of Saxophone Playing" by Larry Teal many times over--it's very thourough. Also I use this "test" to see if my embouchure is right. http://www.saxontheweb.net/Learning/tone_production.html
So you see me floating around town with my mouthpiece and a tuner trying to hit a 880Hz A 🙂 The Japanese must think I am crazy!

However, as someone will surely soon advise me, it doesn't replace an instructor 🙂

Darrell

 

[Saxlicker]

darrell wrote:
The saxophone is a beginner alto sax--this could very well be the issue. I got it pretty cheap to see if I liked playing (which I do!). So I ordered a Yamaha Custom Z, it should arrive soon.
Darrell

Way to go Darrell! 😛 😛

But about you problem?...I can't help you right now but I felt the urge to reply to your disposable solution...and you know what ? I think it will definately get rid of the issue.
I am left scratching my head at the cause though....
may be a leak?
may be undeveloped embouchure and air support?
All in all its not a note where I would suspect problems. Especially if you can get low E and D (without the octave key)

 

[darrell]

Thank you for the reply. I definitely want to try to fix this (on this saxophone) if for no other reason than to understand why it is happening. Is there a way that I can check for leaks myself?

Also, I'd like to keep this sax around. It doesn't seem that bad at all besides this issue.

Yes the low E and D play fine without the octave key.

 

[Rogerb]

What happens if you press the octave key while playing the low E & D?

 

[darrell]

Thanks for the reply Roger.
The low E needs work and the low D is the one that actually goes up. Instead of down. I've played a descending scale from C-B-A-G-F-E-D-C without the octave key, and then with the octave key. The internet certainly will chop some of the bandwidth, but I think if you take a listen, you might hear what the problem could be. Take a listen at http://www.mathcolors.com

Does this indicate an embouchure problem?

dt

 

[Linky Lee]

That's really quite strange!
I can't think of anything without seeing the saxophone, I think you'd better take it to someone to have a look.

Do you have a teacher? I think it's a necessity to have a teacher at the beginning at least.

EDIT: read your first post. Get on the web, find a sax player who plays in Japan locally to you. There has to be some saxophonists around where you are. What about music shops? they will have details of all the local saxophonists.
You might want to try some clarinetists if there are no saxophonists, some may have picked up the saxophone and just not teach it but would be still be able to give you lots of help and advice.

Sounds like it's a mechanical problem though, I don't think you could change how you're blowing it that drastically every time on a certain note.
Are you sure you are using the correct fingers and not lifting off some that are higher up or hitting a palm key?

you should have octave key, first three fingers of the left hand and first three of the right hand only. No palm keys (found high on the left hand palm) no side keys (found low on the right hand in a vertical line) and no extra keys just to the side of the right hand keys (probably a long one for F# and another one for something else, I forget what now).

 

[spike]

Darrell are you perhaps touching the Bb palm key with the inside of your right knuckle, just a slight touch is enough to set that off.
gruss - spike

P.S. In fact I'm almost certain it's that Bb key

 

[Bobby G]

It's odd at first hearing, but I agree with Spike - just a touch on the Bb side key could be enough to mimic a leak and cause that D to jump up.

Cheers, Bob

 

[darrell]

I tried it many times, very careful not to hit any side keys or palm keys. I don't think this is it.

I'll try to find someplace to have the sax looked at. I'll bet something is slightly out of tolerance.

d

 

[spike]

Hi Darrel,
After hearing your sound clip I tried to recreate your problem and the only way I could get the same half tone trill on the D/E keys was by simultaneously opening that Bb key slightly, check if that pad is sitting tight or if the spring is a little weak, (air pressure can "blow" pads open if the springs are set a little weak.) if not have a look at the G key mechanism (third finger left hand) - I'd guess it's in that area somewhere because of the pitch that note is breaking up to.

 

[spike]

Tis a fifth Simon, - 2nd Overtone - 3rd Harmonic, - for it to come out so clean for a beginner, I would've thought some venting necessary.

 

[Linky Lee]

and I can't see anyone changing their tongue throat for that one particular note so much and so consistently for it to be player error at that stage of learning.

Being a relatively new player, I know that most problems we incur are from inconsistencies.