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Saxophones Hello again lady with the Handcraft

gladsaxisme

Try Hard Die Hard
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3,409
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manchester
Welcome back Bunny

I for one have missed your exuberant posts, nice to see you have had the old girl sorted and hope it serves you well,as for playing it, just enjoy it,take it slow and don't expect miracles of yourself,practice makes perfect or so they say,good luck ...john
 

thomsax

Well-Known Member
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4,443
Locality
Sweden
All sax manufactors wanted to go the same way as Conn and later Beuscher did. The machine that drawn toneholes was expensive and the production had to be big to cover the cost for the machine. The machines did a lot for intonation. King dropped the hardsoldered toneholes in the 50's and after that the toneholes were drawn. Martin stayed with soft soldered toneholes to the bitter end (late 60's) .

As it goes for the corrosions on soldered toneholes I think:

-less on plated (nickel or silver) saxes.
-hardsoldered toneholes don't have any/that much corrosion compared to softsoldered.
-outdoor played saxes have more corrosion.
-differences in temperature and humidity increase corrosion.

So the worse sax I can buy is an old marching-band Martin sax in bare brass that have been stored in an attic somewhere in South Sweden (pretty cold winthers and rather hot summers) for 40 years or so.

All players with saxes that have soldered on toneholes should keep thier saxes dry and store them in an even place when it comes to temperature.

Thomas
 

Bunny

Member
Messages
59
Ooooooh my lips tingle and it's a long time since they did they did that!! And ooh the shame of it..I am in the black Museum LOL I don't mind cos I know that lovely SH has fixed all the bodging. He's absolutely right though there was nothing obviously wrong to look at with my Wurly, but under a technical eye...errrgh!!! Bit disappointed it's not the Martin HNdcraft but it's a whole lot more sax than I would have got with a student model which was the only other choice at the time as funds are always really limited.

By exuberant posts do you, perchance, mean gobby? Haha..my husband has gone off to the spare room , his indoor shed, saying he can't bear to hear the word saxophone again today!
 

kevgermany

ex Landrover Nut
Café Supporter
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21,471
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Just north of Munich
My initial thought on seeing the Wurly with the soldered on tone holes (soft soldered) was that it was Martin - for the obvious reason.
However, once it was repaired and I spent some time playing it I felt that the tone didn't quite match what I'd expect from a Martin. Not that the tone was bad - it just didn't have that characteristic Martin sound.
That prompted me to do a bit of browsing, at which point I discovered that Buescher has experimented with soldered on tone holes. I never knew that!
This, along with other indications, marked it out as a Buescher stencil.

There was some seriously dodgy work done on the alto in the past - so much so that it made it in to the Black Museum:

http://www.shwoodwind.co.uk/misc/black_museum.htm (last entry)

Regards,

But it's still quoted as a Martin, not a Buescher, there...
 

Stephen Howard

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,149
Locality
UK
All sax manufactors wanted to go the same way as Conn and later Beuscher did. The machine that drawn toneholes was expensive and the production had to be big to cover the cost for the machine. The machines did a lot for intonation. King dropped the hardsoldered toneholes in the 50's and after that the toneholes were drawn. Martin stayed with soft soldered toneholes to the bitter end (late 60's) .

As it goes for the corrosions on soldered toneholes I think:

-less on plated (nickel or silver) saxes.
-hardsoldered toneholes don't have any/that much corrosion compared to softsoldered.
-outdoor played saxes have more corrosion.
-differences in temperature and humidity increase corrosion.

It may have been costly to buy the drawing machine necessary to make the tone holes, but soldered on tone holes have to be made and fitted - it's much more labour-intensive.

With regard to the comment regarding the corrosion on plated saxes - the plating would have been put on after the tone holes...so they'd still be fitted brass-to-brass.
The presence of silver around the joint will increase the corrosion.
Hard soldered ( or silversoldered ) toneholes aren't affected as much because of the alloy being closer to brass than soft solder is.

Kev - well spotted. I'll correct that next time I'm editing...if I remember!

Regards,
 

Bunny

Member
Messages
59
Oh well...I know no more.
But i've had a good play now with the STM and surprise surprise it's fine..somethings changed...is suspect when I tried on initially getting it back I wasn't allowing enough time for the sax to warm up.? But I will have the Graftonite as a change. I also have a Bill Levington with a BG ligature with a grooved rubber pad that rests against the lower reed..any experience of either of these.

All you men are allowed to say typical bloody woman...can't make up her mind!!

Do all saxes take a few minutes tom warm up and " ease on down" or is it a particular feature of a vintage sax that is so heavy I could use it as a self defence weapon and still not leave dings ...well not on the horn anyway?
 

jonf

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,981
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Betelgeuse
Do all saxes take a few minutes tom warm up and " ease on down" or is it a particular feature of a vintage sax that is so heavy I could use it as a self defence weapon and still not leave dings ...well not on the horn anyway?

I think my saxes need to warm up, but I might be just kidding myself. However, the reed certainly does. They need to be moistened, and then the tip of the reed is often not flat until it's been played for a few minutes. I'd always give a sax/mouthpiece/reed combination a few minutes blowing before coming to any conclusions.
 

johnboy

Senior Member
Messages
1,178
Locality
ISLE OF WIGHT, UK
Hi again bunny, I went to a jam session Thursday night and just for you I used a Graftonite B5. My good lady recorded the session and with a bit of luck it will be on the "sound clips" within a day or so (maybe even today). I used it on "the healing game" - solo played pretty pretty ( I should really have put a slight edge on it), and "walk on the wild side" (Woops, I jammed the "A" (sorry guys)).
 

Bunny

Member
Messages
59
Aaaahh that's really seeweet, never had a sort of dedication like that before
,, I shall look forward to hearing the clips. I shall fire up my computer cos I do most things on my iPad..but it doesn't always support every type of video file, hence can't access them here which is Apples fault.
The new guy who has cross posted to me...Sweetdreamer . He has been having orbs with squeaking on a cheap sax and has ordered the A7 from the same range because it is designed for slow ballads which is largely what I want to pay. Is it ok to have a few mpcs and swap them for particular things you play? How much difference in sound is there between tones of mpc when a beginner, who hasn't got the strongest embouchure, is using it.

Are you still in Valencia? How come you hove up there?
Look forward to hearing your clips
 

kevgermany

ex Landrover Nut
Café Supporter
Messages
21,471
Locality
Just north of Munich
Oh well...I know no more.
But i've had a good play now with the STM and surprise surprise it's fine..somethings changed...is suspect when I tried on initially getting it back I wasn't allowing enough time for the sax to warm up.?

More likely the reed as Jon said - or you didn't get the lig/reed on right

But I will have the Graftonite as a change. I also have a Bill Levington with a BG ligature with a grooved rubber pad that rests against the lower reed..any experience of either of these.

All you men are allowed to say typical bloody woman...can't make up her mind!!

Racist and political comments are not allowed here, so we'll just have to think it....

But BG ligs work well.

Do all saxes take a few minutes tom warm up and " ease on down" or is it a particular feature of a vintage sax that is so heavy I could use it as a self defence weapon and still not leave dings ...well not on the horn anyway?

As Jon said, but the tuning changes as they warm up, gets sharper.

So if you're going to use it as a weapon, decide if it's going to work as a bludgeon (use it cold) or as a cutting weapon (use it sharp) >:)
 

kevgermany

ex Landrover Nut
Café Supporter
Messages
21,471
Locality
Just north of Munich
The new guy who has cross posted to me...Sweetdreamer . He has been having orbs with squeaking on a cheap sax and has ordered the A7 from the same range because it is designed for slow ballads which is largely what I want to pay. Is it ok to have a few mpcs and swap them for particular things you play? How much difference in sound is there between tones of mpc when a beginner, who hasn't got the strongest embouchure, is using it.

Stay away from a 7 tip, until your embouchure develops. And probably best to stick to one mouthpiece for a while - pick the easiest to play, use that until you're tired of it, then start experimenting.
 

Bunny

Member
Messages
59
Ooooh such wit!! Does your 1935alto need to warm up? My situation may occur because unusually our house has no central heating so when it's cold it is COLD and metal gets even colder to touch let alone to play. As it warms up it not only gets slightly sharper but more elastic..loosened up. Like an old lady getting up in the morning and having to unfreeze...go on yes you can think it!,
 

thomsax

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,443
Locality
Sweden
Bob Ackerman (NJ, USA) says that a thickwall sax like Martin takes about 10-15 minutes to warm up and get ready for playing !! A thinwall sax ...... ?????
 

Bunny

Member
Messages
59
My sax whatever it's breed is certainly chunky and much heavier than a modern one well I
IMHO..never weighed it. But yep 15-20 mins is about right!
 

johnboy

Senior Member
Messages
1,178
Locality
ISLE OF WIGHT, UK
Sorry about this Bunny, but we are having a problem uploading the tracks at the moment. Chris98 has kindely come up with the answer (Dropbox), but my sound engineer ( wife Carole) has desserted the computer in favour of cooking dinner. We will try again tomorrow!
 

Bunny

Member
Messages
59
Hope you don't mind this but the ex teacher in me can't help saying I see your wife daubing the PC with trifle if she has" desserted the computer."
Don't worry about the upload. My partners ill in bed..and he's got the power cable for my laptop somewhere so I won't be able to get to them tonight.

Remind me again what sax you are using with the B5

Bunny
 
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kevgermany

ex Landrover Nut
Café Supporter
Messages
21,471
Locality
Just north of Munich
My '35 alto responds best to heavy breathing, then it warms up very quickly. When I have a music lesson in winter and take the alto, it gets so cold in the back of the car (think -20C or lower) that despite the heavy breathing it's barely warm when I start playing. Trouble is the cold gets into the bearings and freezes the oil. So the keys are a little sluggish, I kid you not.
 

johnboy

Senior Member
Messages
1,178
Locality
ISLE OF WIGHT, UK
Never could spell especially when in a hurry!
The sax is a Selmer MkVI, with a Hemke 3 reed, scraped until bottom Bb came in easily (I've been using it for about eighteen months).
The Selmer is a new aquisition, I also have a Yamaha and a Hanson ST6 (tenors) as well as a 1937 Selmer Ballanced Action alto.
Hopefully the upload will happen tomorrow (lots of double letters there).
 

johnboy

Senior Member
Messages
1,178
Locality
ISLE OF WIGHT, UK
It gets so hot here in July & August, that the perspiration washes the oil out of the bearings and they rattle nearly as much as my poor old bones. I also kid you not!
 

Bunny

Member
Messages
59
Wcell I kid you not ..temperature wise I am in between you..and the cold definitely accounts for my joints on the sax being stiff. But I guess it's being fat and old that makes me suffer...oh for the warmth of Alicante...mind you from my short term living in Germany there's a lot to be said for that too.

Tomorrow is the first day of the beginning of my sax life. Oh to have a quarter of the skills you two have. I guess I will have to hang around here and talk to all you lovely men.
 

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