Saxophone beginners Going to jam session tomorrow night

[cappers]

pretty common path these days. Learn an instrument, start playing to backing tracks, start sounding OK to backing tracks.

I've never really synched playing with backing tracks. Somehow it feels different to playing live with others. As mentioned in another thread, I can literally feel the music in my body whereas with backing tracks it's more in my ears, if that makes sense. Maybe I should use headphones?

...... But the middle step of 'find a group at about your same level, maybe a tad above'.

I took the Buddha's advice and followed the 'middle step'. Once I was comfortable on the horn and could play simple tunes I joined an amateur band (found on local Facebook), with players mostly a higher level than I. Worked for me, fun and accelerated my development.

So, it was pretty low pressure...we were among friends, nobody wuz gonna strafe you (too badly) if you filled a solo with clunkers or got lost. But everyone did expect that next time it'd be significantly better.

^^^ Describes our band. Friendly, supportive, especialy of beginners or those with less experience. The MD, a retired pro guitarist, saxophonist and flautist, corrects us about sloppy reading or timing and we are expected to practice new material at home before rehearsals. Serious about playing well but laid back, they're not 'Whiplash' rehearsals.

 

[turf3]

Well, backing tracks are first and foremost a practicing tool. I think it's hugely useful to have a captive rhythm section that will bang away at the changes indefinitely so you can work out patterns, learn to hear certain progressions, etc., etc.

But a practicing tool is not a performance mode. Just like you don't get on the bandstand and play scales at MM140, performing as a solo with tracks is going to be inferior to playing with humans - IF the humans have an acceptable level of competence. BUT - that's often not the case.

I have performed as a solo with backing tracks - it was OK, audiences liked it OK. I would have enjoyed it better and given them a better show had I had access to additional musicians - but constraints of space, finances, available personnel, etc., meant that arranging that would have been essentially impossible.

 

[Ivan]

to have my iPad on a table instead of a music stand. (I need to bring a music stand!)

Erm...

Shurely an iPad stand?

The inexpensive sort that grips the tablet on an extendable pole with a tripod base... That looks sooo much less obtrusive than a fat music stand?

 

[AlonW]

Erm...

Shurely an iPad stand?

The inexpensive sort that grips the tablet on an extendable pole with a tripod base... That looks sooo much less obtrusive than a fat music stand?

My music stand works well to hold music books and papers too. I have some hand-written music I want to play so I think it's okay.

 

[JayeNM]

I took the Buddha's advice and followed the 'middle step'. Once I was comfortable on the horn and could play simple tunes I joined an amateur band (found on local Facebook), with players mostly a higher level than I. Worked for me, fun and accelerated my development.

That is the BEST scenario...a group which is at a slightly highef level but not so much as to leave you in the dust, or make it a drag for them. Perfect scenario. Tgey are gonna pull you along, and you are gonna be on top of your musical awardness in those situations.

As a bandleader I still do this with developing players. For example, if we need keys (because there are only 2.5 keys players within 100 miles who can really do jazz justice, so they are usually booked) I will use two local players, young, who are developing/coming along OK. It is a win-win: I want/need that piano voice for a show/session....and they dive into a situation which is gonna moderately challenge them to up their game a bit.

Initially it isn't uncommon for them go say stuff like "sorry, I didn't do this or that well" ....to which I usually will say two sorts of things

1) if they did an adequate enough job - "hey, man, it sounded like a jazz piano player to me"

2) if their self criticixm was pretty accurate, and they didn't really quite cut it - "well, yeah but it's not like the audience recognized it...and by virtue of the fact othat YOU did recognize it....that's a good thing right there...just woodshed it a little for next time"

 

[JayeNM]

Erm...

Shurely an iPad stand?

The inexpensive sort that grips the tablet on an extendable pole with a tripod base... That looks sooo much less obtrusive than a fat music stand?

Have to agree with that. The old school solid back music stand, for a small combo setting....if it isn't holding sheet music...that setup is really passe at this point.

 

[AlonW]

Well, backing tracks are first and foremost a practicing tool. I think it's hugely useful to have a captive rhythm section that will bang away at the changes indefinitely so you can work out patterns, learn to hear certain progressions, etc., etc.

But a practicing tool is not a performance mode. Just like you don't get on the bandstand and play scales at MM140, performing as a solo with tracks is going to be inferior to playing with humans - IF the humans have an acceptable level of competence. BUT - that's often not the case.

I have performed as a solo with backing tracks - it was OK, audiences liked it OK. I would have enjoyed it better and given them a better show had I had access to additional musicians - but constraints of space, finances, available personnel, etc., meant that arranging that would have been essentially impossible.

Backing tracks may be practicing tools but we can also use them to replace real musicians as long as we use our own conception of what we want to guide us when we design them. Then, it becomes a form of creative expression along with the playing itself and today's software is really good at sounding human. What makes real life jamming different, is communication. With a backing track, it's only one way, but with people, the communication goes back and forth, if you can listen enough to what the other musicians are doing and respond. I would never perform for a live audience with a backing track unless absolutely necessary. I only use them for digital content. I would also prefer real musicians if I was playing live for an audience. But why not use technology to make your arrangements anyway? Later you can print the scores for real people to play. So backing tracks can be more than a practicing tool, they can lay the framework for real life experiences, or when you play along with a backing track to make a recording, they become the real life experience. Either way, backing tracks have their place in lots of types of musical scenarios. The digital musicians that exist in backing tracks are often smarter than humans, can do more, better, and faster. They only lack one thing, the opportunity for friendship. Real musicians are not smarter, or better, but they are people. And people matter more. Musicians we play with can become life-long friends. Intimate feelings can be shared in a musical jam, happen once and never happen again. This can never happen with a backing track.

 

[Colin the Bear]

As far as backing tracks go, they can be so much more than a practice aid. I've had quite a bit of paid work using them. With a suitable PA and sympathetic playing, the result can be quite pleasing.

Much easier to play with than live musicians. Exactly the same every time, right tempo, right key.

My problems these days are adapting to the discussion the rhythm section is having about tempo, style and harmony. Different every time. But that's Jazz😉

 

[turf3]

As far as backing tracks go, they can be so much more than a practice aid. I've had quite a bit of paid work using them. With a suitable PA and sympathetic playing, the result can be quite pleasing.

Much easier to play with than live musicians. Exactly the same every time, right tempo, right key.

My problems these days are adapting to the discussion the rhythm section is having about tempo, style and harmony. Different every time. But that's Jazz😉

The way I'd characterize it is that playing with backing tracks prevents train wrecks but it also prevents those moments of transcendence that are what keep many of us doing this. Those only come when humans are doing it.

"Can be quite pleasing" is an acceptable level for background music, and that can earn you money, but I want more. I'm not saying I won't do solo with tracks gigs; I will; but I don't fool myself into believing it's anything it isn't.

 

[Colin the Bear]

It is what it is.

 

[Grumps]

Real musicians are not smarter, or better, but they are people. And people matter more. Musicians we play with can become life-long friends. Intimate feelings can be shared in a musical jam, happen once and never happen again. This can never happen with a backing track.

When I was growing up, a kid moved in next door who was learning electric guitar. Going over there and jamming was what probably gave me an edge to play rock music when I was older. But the point I'm making is that I was fortunate to have rhythm players available to me from a very, very early age; beginning with my father. What I'm saying is that it might be helpful for you to forge a friendship with someone who plays keyboard or guitar, and then jam accordingly.

 

[JayeNM]

Backing tracks may be practicing tools but we can also use them to replace real musicians as long as we use our own conception of what we want to guide us when we design them. Then, it becomes a form of creative expression along with the playing itself and today's software is really good at sounding human.

No they cannot, and no software is not.

Backing tracks cannot replace a rhythm section of live musicians. Karaoke performers like to say it can, buf they are woefully inadequate. So much is lost...particularly INTERPLAY....which is arguably one of the most important aspects of a band of people. Backing tracks do not interplay.

It is not a 'form of creative expression' ....much....to literally perform your tunes with the SAME BACKING track show after show. Yeah YOU won't play the head and solo the same each time...but the track is giving the lead NOTHING as far as diversity or direction. So, again, a most important part of the 'creative' aspect becomes completely rote, sanitized...

With due respect...to me, a musician who says 'tracks are great because they do the same thing every time...no variances'....is a musician who first and foremost desires comfort and homogeneity in their 'performances'. No surprises. They don't wanna be pushed or influenced. They just wanna deliver their product.

But that is not what many genres are about. So it's an odd, and IMHO, artificial, juxtaposition when the music turns into that.

Doesn't matter how 'human sounding' the track is, it isn't listening and responding....so to say 'digital' musicians are superior to real ones....respectfully...you are revealing a lack of experience in real band situations.
Understandable for someone who has relied heavily on tracks for years...the more one stays in their limited comfort zone, the more they will make assumptions that leaving it has no great benefits (musically). But the more you play with other humans the more your viewpoint will likely evolve....

 

[JSL]

No they cannot, and no software is not.

Backing tracks cannot replace a rhythm section of live musicians. Karaoke performers like to say it can, buf they are woefully inadequate. So much is lost...particularly INTERPLAY....which is arguably one of the most important aspects of a band of people. Backing tracks do not interplay.

It is not a 'form of creative expression' ....much....to literally perform your tunes with the SAME BACKING track show after show. Yeah YOU won't play the head and solo the same each time...but the track is giving the lead NOTHING as far as diversity or direction. So, again, a most important part of the 'creative' aspect becomes completely rote, sanitized...

With due respect...to me, a musician who says 'tracks are great because they do the same thing every time...no variances'....is a musician who first and foremost desires comfort and homogeneity in their 'performances'. No surprises. They don't wanna be pushed or influenced. They just wanna deliver their product.

But that is not what many genres are about. So it's an odd, and IMHO, artificial, juxtaposition when the music turns into that.

Doesn't matter how 'human sounding' the track is, it isn't listening and responding....so to say 'digital' musicians are superior to real ones....respectfully...you are revealing a lack of experience in real band situations.
Understandable for someone who has relied heavily on tracks for years...the more one stays in their limited comfort zone, the more they will make assumptions that leaving it has no great benefits (musically). But the more you play with other humans the more your viewpoint will likely evolve....

Thank You. This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ is accurate and exactly how I see it! I was beginning to think I was alone in my view of backing tracks, but Jaye said it perfectly. Backing tracks definitely have a place in the practice room, but even there I quickly grow tired of them. The interaction between a live (living humans) rhythm section and the soloist is a huge part of a musical performance and cannot be replaced by a backing track. In my, somewhat humble, opinion.

 

[cappers]

Backing tracks definitely have a place in the practice room, but even there I quickly grow tired of them. The interaction between a live (living humans) rhythm section and the soloist is a huge part of a musical performance and cannot be replaced by a backing track.

Thank you, that is what I was saying. Backing tracks are helpful for practise but since joining a band and playing with others every week, I have felt the 'magic' of interacting and really hearing and feeling what's going on. 2D v 3D to me.

I feel lucky and privileged that I have access to such a resource. Maybe one day I'll play at a jam session or open-mike at a local pub, but I'm not ready yet.

 

[Colin the Bear]

It really does depend what kind of show you're putting on. Same every time is required for some shows. Go wandering off and you'll get the sack. I can't imagine freestyling in a saxophone quartet or big band.

For a one off performance the audience doesn't know it's the same. However if they've seen you before, and booked you again, they want the same again.

There's so much more to backing tracks than Karaeoke. They're usually facsimiles of well known recordings.

I can programme a track with five repeats and make each one different. Select the tempo, genre, instrumentation, players, change them all and back again mid track, and my software is pretty old.

Arranging backing tracks is a useful ear training and harmony tool too. Learning how to change the mood with a few chord substitutions and progressions is priceless for creating a solo in a jazz situation.

 

[turf3]

Well, I went to a new jam session last night.

I do NOT understand why I always feel so nervous before entering a new one, when I've been doing this all my life (though not frequently, and maybe that's why). Once I got there, as always there were some players who could play rings around me, and some players I could play rings around, and I had no trouble hanging with them either musically or socially. Way too much nervousness for the reality of the situation.

Much the same scene as always. A few observations:

EVERYONE had a tablet of some sort for chord charts, except one of the singers had printed lead sheets. Other than that I don't think I saw an actual lead sheet whether paper or electronic, just chord charts. Not a single actual printed fakebook.

I was probably the only person there who would step away and stop looking at the screen. That doesn't necessarily mean the others "weren't listening", the usual gripe - but it was mildly interesting to notice this. My habit of playing solos using my ears after using eyes to see the basic chord structure is so ingrained that it's not going to change. And all the tunes (I mean ALL) were tunes I've played a jillion times before, so really it was more "what key is this thing in, and what's that chord at the end of the bridge?"

There was one tenor player who played everything SO FREAKING LOUD. I was, sadly, drawn into the "play as loud as the other guy" mode after a few tunes. For me, when I start blowing really hard all the time, it's really difficult to maintain nuance in what I'm playing. It seems that this happens every fourth or fifth jam session I attend. My usual scheme is when I come in, to motion the rhythm section "SSHHHHHH" and play at least the first chorus pianississimo. Sometimes the RS will follow me, sometimes they won't.

My recent lack of playing these tunes in this kind of setting has let my ear deteriorate - I blew more clams than usual.

I didn't hear a single run-on solo. Everyone held themselves to one or at most two choruses. This is good.

 

[JayeNM]

It really does depend what kind of show you're putting on. Same every time is required for some shows. Go wandering off and you'll get the sack. I can't imagine freestyling in a saxophone quartet or big band.

For a one off performance the audience doesn't know it's the same. However if they've seen you before, and booked you again, they want the same again.

There's so much more to backing tracks than Karaeoke. They're usually facsimiles of well known recordings.

I can programme a track with five repeats and make each one different. Select the tempo, genre, instrumentation, players, change them all and back again mid track, and my software is pretty old.

Arranging backing tracks is a useful ear training and harmony tool too. Learning how to change the mood with a few chord substitutions and progressions is priceless for creating a solo in a jazz situation.

You sorta just did a strawman here tho.

Is 'I go wandering off' or 'freestyling' the same as 'being influenced by the band's slight variation of vibe and energy each time they play' ?

Those are not synonymous.

Putting it in a different way....

If, instead of the karaoke tracks you use .....at the karaoke gigs you do....you came with the same rhythm section of real players, each time...and played the same repertoire each time....(so you got the 'same every time' requirement covered right there 😉 ).

....would YOUR playing 'naturally' be 'going off' or 'freestyling' ...by virtue of the fact that you had a human rhythm section with you ?????

 

[turf3]

Yeah, you know, when I play those trad jazz gigs with a human rhythm section, if I decided to leave the chord progressions and rhythm and playing "free", and expect them to follow me, it doesn't seem like it would work out that well.

I'm going to stand by my assertion that using tracks to substitute for a human rhythm section will limit you from both disastrous performances and top level ones. It's going to force everything to a certain mediocre level. Sometimes that's what gets the gig and the paycheck, but that doesn't mean it's not mediocre.

 

[AlonW]

Going to a jam session tonight! Wish me luck if you want! I won’t be needing no luck, my friends. I ain’t got nothing to prove tonight. I’m going to relax, to have a good time, and find peace. I will bring my sax, but not my anxieties, or fears. I won’t need luck, I’m not gonna fight what happens. Bad or good, it’ll be okay. I simply am grateful to have this opportunity to enjoy this moment in time. When it arrives, I’ll be happy knowing I don’t care what happens. And that will give me the space I need to get into my playing, not feel anything much happening. Just being okay is enough. I want to be okay more than play the sax. When I pull out my horn tonight, I won’t be thinking about it. I’ll be wondering more about how to give my heart space to feel my surroundings. To not judge others. To be at peace. The meaning of life: Peace. And so I say to you, I don’t need luck. 🍀 🍀🍀

 

[AlonW]

I didn’t bring my sheet music and couldn’t play any songs at all. They said I disrespected the music. I was not hurt. I wanna go back and I will bring my iPad. Then we’ll see what’s up!