Saxophone beginners Going to jam session tomorrow night

[Pete Thomas]

They said I disrespected the music.

What did you do to get that reaction?

 

[jazzdoh]

I didn’t bring my sheet music and couldn’t play any songs at all. They said I disrespected the music. I was not hurt. I wanna go back and I will bring my iPad. Then we’ll see what’s up!

Why did you do that, you said previously you can't play without the notes, there will be a time when you are ready but last night probably wasn't that time.

 

[AlonW]

Why did you do that, you said previously you can't play without the notes, there will be a time when you are ready but last night probably wasn't that time.

I thought they wouldn't let me bring my sheet music up to the stage, so I didn't bother to bring it. So, I couldn't play the heads of any songs. They asked me to pick a song, so I said play a blues, so the guitar player picked a song, and I didn't know it. But I played a solo anyway, which went okay for the most part.

What did you do to get that reaction?

I get why he said that I disrespected the music. To him, I played badly. But the experience was still beautiful. And so I left there thinking, I'll bring my sheet music next time.

 

[mark_addy]

They said I disrespected the music.

Flipping Heck 🙂 That's a bit stong. I'd reserve that for someone who wiped their a*** on it.

 

[Pete Thomas]

I didn’t bring my sheet music and couldn’t play any songs at all.

So you were just a member of the audience, not a participant in the jam. Why would they say you disrespected the music?

 

[Targa]

They said I disrespected the music.

It’s at moments like that my mouth works before my brain and I could never return though they would remember the reply.

 

[AlonW]

So you were just a member of the audience, not a participant in the jam. Why would they say you disrespected the music?

I did play. I just didn’t know the head of the song that they were playing. So I’ll bring my notes next week, no big deal. I didn’t really take offense to it, but I will say not playing the music right, it’s not disrespecting the music at all. I mean, at least I’m trying, right? I showed up, I played a song (or tried to) and I gave it my best shot. But I also see his point of view. People spend their whole lives trying to get good at this. And I went up there and played nothing. I mean, no song. Just a little solo. That’s not anything. To a jazz aficionado that doesn’t sound right. They are always expecting a certain format. I really think it’s pointless, trying to expect what music is going to be like, judging it if it’s right or wrong, good or bad. Why does it matter? The music is not any better or worse because of me. I’m not a pro player. I’m just there to have fun.

 

[Colin the Bear]

Perhaps find a local band who let you "sit in" for a couple of numbers. They may play something you request or something from their repertoire. The trumpet plays the head a couple of times, while you fit in and take a solo chorus.

Jam nights and open mic's are different. Learn two "common standards" inside out, by heart. Expand your repertoire from there. At an open mic you probably need to lead.

First time is always a B!tch. Now you know what the score is with this particular band/venue, adapt. Upward and onward. You've found out how easy it isn't. 😉

 

[Grumps]

I didn’t bring my sheet music and couldn’t play any songs at all. They said I disrespected the music. I was not hurt. I wanna go back and I will bring my iPad. Then we’ll see what’s up!

Respect from me though. Now you know where you are and where you need to be. Or not, if you just want to have fun. But those guys don't sound like fun to me.

 

[Pete Thomas]

I mean, at least I’m trying, right? I showed up, I played a song (or tried to) and I gave it my best shot. But I also see his point of view. People spend their whole lives trying to get good at this. And I went up there and played nothing. I mean, no song. Just a little solo.

You are right in that some people do spend a lot of time working on being good at playing jam sessions. Learning the tunes, learning the chord changes. I can totally understand them not being happy with someone joining in without knowing the song - whether by ear, memory or reading. Especially if there is an audience who have come along, maybe paid, to hear some good music. It's different if it's just a rehearsal but even a jam session is something that is there for an audience as well as for the musicians.

Earlier on in the thread you said you have no intention of even trying to learn a song so maybe that explains why someone thought you disrespected the music which is based originally and fundamentally on an aural tradition.

I never learned to play songs without sheet music, and I have no intention of trying.

But those guys don't sound like fun to me.

Exactly why it's a good idea to hang out at first and get an understanding of (and respect for) the scene you have just walked into.

 

[Colin the Bear]

These sessions have a level and are all quite different.

Some have a very high standard and are all pro's or degree students jamming.

Some are for newbies or wannabees to have a go.

Attend a few and find your level.

 

[JayeNM]

I didn’t bring my sheet music and couldn’t play any songs at all. They said I disrespected the music. I was not hurt. I wanna go back and I will bring my iPad. Then we’ll see what’s up!

I don't mean to become psychoanalytical here....BUT...for 4-5 PAGES of this thread there was discussion....first RAISED BY YOU....about how it'd be a GOOD IDEA TO BRING MUSIC.

Then you INTENTIONALLY did NOT BRING MUSIC....and thus far you provide no explanation as to why.

"I thought they wouldn't let me bring music to the stage"...

Come, now...

Did you ask ?

You did not even arrive WITH the music...in your car, on your body...

You said before you went you were 'grateful for the opportunity'...then your actions there displayed/embodied no gratitude whatsoever...

In absence of more explanation than this, I do not mean to be hard on you here...but I can recognize self-sabotage when I see it.

Unfortunately...it is hard to offer you understanding or any comforting words here....and honestly, I hope other respondents do not take the bait, as some have already started to...and start pointing fingers at the people who headed the session and how unkind they were....or how 'it was the wrong kinda group for you to be jamming with....'

Hooey, both....

You deliberately put yourself in a position to fail....and the outcome was exactly what one would expect.

People been trying here to give you good advice and pertinent discussion, and you come back and (almost proudly) announce how you discarded every bit of it...

...and, gosh, things ...didn't go... too well....

Sorry, bro, but really.....(?)

 

[JayeNM]

These sessions have a level and are all quite different.

Attend a few and find your level.

Not sure there are jam sessions for the level of:

"I know almost no songs by heart, I need music for all songs I play, I am not particularly experienced wiith a wide variety of the most common jazz tunes...but I am not bringing song charts to this jam"
😵

@AlonW - "at least I'm trying, right ?"

Respectfully, no. You weren't trying. You attended unprepared, and it was a conscious decision by you to do that.

You want accolades for showing up unprepared and honking a little on a blues ?

When you had the option of bringing your charts and likely being allowed to call a tune you were familiar with ?

That is disrespecting the jam. "I tried to play a song I didn't know...I gave it my best shot".

No you didn't. Bringing charts along to aid you in 'trying to play a song you didn't know' = giving it your best shot.

"They are always expecting a certain format"

Yes, Alon...that is Playing Jazz. That is one of the Conventions for jams and sessions. It's called 'Structure'.

"I think it's pointless...expecting what music is supposed to be like"

Hmmmm...you have then put yourself into quite the Pickle, apparently. Because when everyone around you sees the point, but you give the point no respect....(?)....

A few pages ago I mentioned how one doesn't wanna become 'THAT guy'....you have, whether intentionally or not, given yourself that identity for the time being...and you were aware of how
to avoid it....

 

[Grumps]

I'm reminded of a time when I was in a local bar many, many years ago and a popular guitar duo were playing. The lead guy was a poser, very full of himself and liked the sound of his own voice; even when not singing. So I'm young, bold and I tell him to shut and play. So he tells me why don't I get up and play, so I do, and he hands me his guitar. Now perhaps I should mention, I do not play guitar. But I knew where the volume lever was and let 'em have it. As he cautiously approached me to get his guitar back... and I was a lot bigger than he was... a lot... I lean in and whisper to him that I'm actually a sax player and I'd love to sit it. He says get your horn, and I did. And played the whole last set with them. Good times.

 

[LostCircuits]

and I was a lot bigger than he was... a lot...

Tiny Tim?

 

[cappers]

Tiny Tim?

Tip-toe thru' the Grumps-lips with me.....

 

[Grumps]

Tiny Tim?

Well, as we've actually met in person... now I don't feel so bad for thinking you channel Werner Herzog. But there was no tip-toeing that night. Well, except for when he came to get his guitar back. Good times though, and that's how I broke into the local music scene.

 

[turf3]

I have seen a lot of people who've decided "I want to play jazz" based on the idea that jazz is "sophisticated and hip" - but with minimal knowledge of what "playing jazz" actually consists of. Failing to understand that there's a repertoire (really, several repertoires) is a common issue. I remember a female singer who decided "I want to sing jazz" but she wouldn't listen to the famous singers, pick some common tunes, learn them in common keys - oh no, she decided that her entry into being a "jazz singer" would be with some oddball show tune that no one's ever heard of - an incredibly obscure torch song. Of course, it was complicated as all hell, so the ordinary pickup pianist didn't want to have anything to do with it, and she got all upset because no one wanted to participate in HER idea of "being a jazz singer".

Especially if you are attending the standard open or semi-open jazz jam, you can expect there'll be a certain repertoire of tunes. If you want to try out something oddball, you've gotta bring charts or at least chord sheets (unless it's another variant of Rhythm Changes or something like that). That's the way this thing works. In my visit to the jazz jam the other night, NO I didn't bring charts or books or an iPad. I also was pretty certain there'd be someone I could look over their shoulder (there was) and I was pretty certain I'd have played all or almost all the tunes many many times over the last 45+ years (also true).

But for an open jam, DON'T be that guy who calls the weirdo tune, that no one knows. And don't be the guy who stands up there and fumble-farts around, loses the time, and makes everyone look at their shoes till you finally grind to a halt in the 22nd bar of a 32 bar tune. I mean, you can blow some clams, and if you explain you're getting started, you'll be cut some slack, but at least have SOMETHING under your belt. It's far from disastrous to refer to a lead sheet or chord chart; that's not what I'm talking about here. I'm talking about the norms of how jazz jam sessions work, for the best results for participants and listeners.

If you want to focus on unusual tunes, go start a band. I know a guy who's focused the last several years on the music of Tadd Dameron. (some of Tadd's tunes are in the "jam session canon", but not many, and there's a ton of material out there that few have ever heard). So, he formed his own band.

If you want to "just jam freely, without being restricted by things like song form or accepted repertoire", then you need to form a group to do that. If you're a genius like Ornette Coleman, it might result in some really interesting stuff. If you're tripping and high, it might result in something like some of what the Grateful Dead did. I'm going to bet that it won't be either of those.

Structure in music is good. People who are successful at stepping outside the structure, either briefly, or in an extended way, are 99.999% of the time the people who have mastered it within structure, and then stepped out. (Listen to Coltrane, or Rahsaan, or Dolphy, playing a standard ballad.) People who reject musical structure from the get-go are rarely successful.

 

[mark_addy]

I know a guy who's focused the last several years on the music of Tadd Dameron. (some of Tadd's tunes are in the "jam session canon", but not many, and there's a ton of material out there that few have ever heard). So, he formed his own band.

I like hanging out on here - there are all sorts of prompts to things one has forgotten about. As a lonely young man I went to a regular jazz evening class / jam held upstairs at Manchester's well-known 'Band on the Wall' in its earlier incarnation, about 35 years ago. It was there I learned what a 251 was, and one of the tunes was 'Lady Bird'. So thanks - a nice Tad Dameron tune, Fats Navarro, what's not to like. One to add to the pad.

 

[AlonW]

I have seen a lot of people who've decided "I want to play jazz" based on the idea that jazz is "sophisticated and hip" - but with minimal knowledge of what "playing jazz" actually consists of. Failing to understand that there's a repertoire (really, several repertoires) is a common issue. I remember a female singer who decided "I want to sing jazz" but she wouldn't listen to the famous singers, pick some common tunes, learn them in common keys - oh no, she decided that her entry into being a "jazz singer" would be with some oddball show tune that no one's ever heard of - an incredibly obscure torch song. Of course, it was complicated as all hell, so the ordinary pickup pianist didn't want to have anything to do with it, and she got all upset because no one wanted to participate in HER idea of "being a jazz singer".

Especially if you are attending the standard open or semi-open jazz jam, you can expect there'll be a certain repertoire of tunes. If you want to try out something oddball, you've gotta bring charts or at least chord sheets (unless it's another variant of Rhythm Changes or something like that). That's the way this thing works. In my visit to the jazz jam the other night, NO I didn't bring charts or books or an iPad. I also was pretty certain there'd be someone I could look over their shoulder (there was) and I was pretty certain I'd have played all or almost all the tunes many many times over the last 45+ years (also true).

But for an open jam, DON'T be that guy who calls the weirdo tune, that no one knows. And don't be the guy who stands up there and fumble-farts around, loses the time, and makes everyone look at their shoes till you finally grind to a halt in the 22nd bar of a 32 bar tune. I mean, you can blow some clams, and if you explain you're getting started, you'll be cut some slack, but at least have SOMETHING under your belt. It's far from disastrous to refer to a lead sheet or chord chart; that's not what I'm talking about here. I'm talking about the norms of how jazz jam sessions work, for the best results for participants and listeners.

If you want to focus on unusual tunes, go start a band. I know a guy who's focused the last several years on the music of Tadd Dameron. (some of Tadd's tunes are in the "jam session canon", but not many, and there's a ton of material out there that few have ever heard). So, he formed his own band.

If you want to "just jam freely, without being restricted by things like song form or accepted repertoire", then you need to form a group to do that. If you're a genius like Ornette Coleman, it might result in some really interesting stuff. If you're tripping and high, it might result in something like some of what the Grateful Dead did. I'm going to bet that it won't be either of those.

Structure in music is good. People who are successful at stepping outside the structure, either briefly, or in an extended way, are 99.999% of the time the people who have mastered it within structure, and then stepped out. (Listen to Coltrane, or Rahsaan, or Dolphy, playing a standard ballad.) People who reject musical structure from the get-go are rarely successful.

Agree to all of the above. I mean, I want to play my arrangement of "I'm Late" with a band, so I mentioned it to the pianist who runs the workshop, but now I see, I might as well start simpler, and play something everyone knows. Thanks for your insights!