Saxophone beginners Going to jam session tomorrow night

... the point i was trying to make is no one cares if you have the music there or not, what matters is what the punters hears and sometimes even that doesn't matter to some of the listeners, it can be just a night out for some.
Jazz jams were never my scene, but the guys in my old combo used to run one in town. I would say the less clutter you bring with you, the better; from their view.

Alon has stated his intentions however, that he does not wish to leave the written page. All well and good, if that's what he wants to do.
 
It's a common misconception that improvised music means not practicing it beforehand.

But it's a wrong misconception.

If you look at the histories of great soloists in African-American improvised music, you will find that 99.999% of them practiced assiduously, not just technique, but soloing itself. Hours spent with the record player, or jamming with friends to get a particular tune down cold.

If you happen to be a genius, then improvisation with no preconceived ideas CAN turn out like Ornette Coleman. For most of us, it'll just sound bad. To sound good when improvising, learn the vocabulary, develop your own personal vocabulary, develop your own personal style of playing. And yes, you'll practice one particular turnaround in many keys till it fits under your fingers; and many other similar things.

If you take someone who's only learned 15 words of Spanish, and ask them to give an extemporaneous speech in that language, how's it going to go?

I'm NOT saying you have to master this or that body of knowledge before you start improvising! Far from it! But the more material you have ready to hand, the better you'll be able to communicate through the instrument.
 
Jazz jams were never my scene, but the guys in my old combo used to run one in town. I would say the less clutter you bring with you, the better; from their view.

Alon has stated his intentions however, that he does not wish to leave the written page. All well and good, if that's what he wants to do.
It was never my scene either, went to a couple in my earlier days, but gigging with a band for me was what mattered.
Alon might be happy with the music now but it might change for him later in his journey.
 
Yeah, once you know how to do it.
Yes, exactly. This is the point of 'learning the rules/conventions'.

One can only be 'spontaneous' using the tools they have. If those tools are too limited or inadequate to allow a player to create what they want, spontaneously....then they will not achieve what they ard striving for.

I.e. - you may in fact end up with a purely 'spontaneous' improv solo in regards to the notes and phrases 'flowing freely' from your mind to fingers to bell of horn....

which is a part success...

but if the solo is full of clunker notes, and phrases which are out of tempo....

the unfettered spontaneity didn't get you much in the end....other than a probably undesired reputation...
 
As turf said, one need not 'woodshed' and get to a point of 'mastery', in isolation....'before daring' to venture into public jams and workshops... (pardon the hyperbole)...

Nobody really does that.

The exposure to playing/jamming with others while you are working on musical development run concurrent....for most....as it should be.
 
As turf said, one need not 'woodshed' and get to a point of 'mastery', in isolation....'before daring' to venture into public jams and workshops... (pardon the hyperbole)...

Nobody really does that.

The exposure to playing/jamming with others while you are working on musical development run concurrent....for most....as it should be.
The real point here is this - playing in public, with other musicians around you, and an audience in attendance (hopefully), is different than playing at home with a backing track. Both are important, and both need practice 🙂
 
Yes: many of the skills needed for jazz performance are really only practice-able on the bandstand in real time. It's like playing basketball: you can't learn to play basketball by just staying at home and shooting baskets and dribbling round your backyard court; you have to go out and play actual basketball games; but on the other hand you do have to learn how to dribble and shoot and make a lay-up and pass. You can certainly play games of basketball before you reach expert status on the elements of the game; but you've got to work on both.
 
Yes: many of the skills needed for jazz performance are really only practice-able on the bandstand in real time. It's like playing basketball: you can't learn to play basketball by just staying at home and shooting baskets and dribbling round your backyard court; you have to go out and play actual basketball games; but on the other hand you do have to learn how to dribble and shoot and make a lay-up and pass. You can certainly play games of basketball before you reach expert status on the elements of the game; but you've got to work on both.
Good analogy. And it's so true that playing on the bandstand with a band is essential, even early-on. And (maybe) even if you really aren't totally ready for it, skill-wise. I said 'maybe' because it might not apply to everyone, but it sure helped me early on. Mostly it showed me I wasn't ready and had a lot to learn. Years ago, I started out in a blues band at the invitation of a guitar player (good player) friend. He gave me a list of tunes, and I got some records (yeah, vinyl) to play along to and try to learn the tunes. I was able to pick up some of it by ear and could play in 2 or 3 keys but knew almost nothing about chord changes. We did some rehearsals and actually got some gigs. I got by somewhat with the blues scale and trusted my (undeveloped) ear, but there were glaring issues that I became aware of. I really struggled with certain keys and it was a revelation when I discovered the I, IV & V chords.

I finally realized I had to learn those chords and began practicing in all keys. As well as learning the blues vocabulary (lines, riffs, etc.). After learning some of this stuff, I could try it out on the bandstand and began to get it figured out. Long story short, those early days (well, nights) playing with a band was very helpful. Eventually I studied music theory, and with practice, as well as experience on the bandstand, I got better. I've also found that, to this day, I have to play a tune with a band to really nail it down.

As a jazz fan (I don't really separate jazz from blues), I also worked on jazz tunes and some of them were incorporated in the bands I played in.

Playing live music for an audience is what it's all about.
 
Good analogy. And it's so true that playing on the bandstand with a band is essential, even early-on. And (maybe) even if you really aren't totally ready for it, skill-wise. I said 'maybe' because it might not apply to everyone, but it sure helped me early on. Mostly it showed me I wasn't ready and had a lot to learn. Years ago, I started out in a blues band at the invitation of a guitar player (good player) friend. He gave me a list of tunes, and I got some records (yeah, vinyl) to play along to and try to learn the tunes. I was able to pick up some of it by ear and could play in 2 or 3 keys but knew almost nothing about chord changes. We did some rehearsals and actually got some gigs. I got by somewhat with the blues scale and trusted my (undeveloped) ear, but there were glaring issues that I became aware of. I really struggled with certain keys and it was a revelation when I discovered the I, IV & V chords.

I finally realized I had to learn those chords and began practicing in all keys. As well as learning the blues vocabulary (lines, riffs, etc.). After learning some of this stuff, I could try it out on the bandstand and began to get it figured out. Long story short, those early days (well, nights) playing with a band was very helpful. Eventually I studied music theory, and with practice, as well as experience on the bandstand, I got better. I've also found that, to this day, I have to play a tune with a band to really nail it down.

As a jazz fan (I don't really separate jazz from blues), I also worked on jazz tunes and some of them were incorporated in the bands I played in.

Playing live music for an audience is what it's all about.
Nothing like doing it, to find out what you can't do! 🙂
 
I don't know what jam sessions are like over the pond, or for that matter here now, when i did some decades ago, they weren't meant to be perfect, it was a way for an up and coming musician to experience the next level of playing and a halfway house to gigging, if you got it wrong, you got encouragement and with practise you got better.
Well done Alon for having a go, as i have said before do what your happy with, if you get wrong no one gets hurt, take the music if that's the way to go for you, it' all part of a journey, a journey we have all gone through.
 
Nothing like doing it, to find out what you can do! :w00t:
Ah, a glass-half-full man
🙂

It's not relevant to this thread, but in an earlier life I was some kind of teacher (not music), and 'nothing like teaching it, to find out what you don't know' is another true truism like these.
 
Brecker can let go, because he worked diligently, to enter the realm of,
"Cadenza Madness" 🎶🏴‍☠️🎶
Brecker's contributions to sax playing, both as a sideman, leader and composer, is significant and phenomenal. However the above clip left me cold. Technically brilliant, shows what a virtuoso he was. However the cadenzas (? cadenze) on nearly every other note just spoilt (for me) the beauty and melody of the original song. I'll probably be slated for this but to my ears it was just a fancier form of scale running, which is much derided in beginners!
 
Yes: many of the skills needed for jazz performance are really only practice-able on the bandstand in real time. It's like playing basketball: you can't learn to play basketball by just staying at home and shooting baskets and dribbling round your backyard court; you have to go out and play actual basketball games; but on the other hand you do have to learn how to dribble and shoot and make a lay-up and pass. You can certainly play games of basketball before you reach expert status on the elements of the game; but you've got to work on both.
This all reminds me of my youth soccer coaching days. Our program back in SF started with five year olds, although the big attendance started at around age 8....obviously, five year olds on a soccer pitch three or four aside was pure mayhem....and parents and coaches with the wrong attitude of 'they have to learn SKILLS BEFORE they play MATCHES' were constantly popping their veins.

They failed to realize that playing in the context of the game also is skill development.

This went all the way thru HS. When I started coaching competitive league teams, I had a co-coach, Italian, who's dad had been an assistant coach in AC Milan's Youth Development program (really). He, too, was befuddled as to why our kids were taking the field when the skill sets and playmaking thinking were at such different levels from player to player. But those teams always (.....ok, usually) held their own just fine....

No different really than elementary school band programs...back in the day when the US actually FUNDED arts programs in public schools (and cared about public school funding at all). Kids learned their instruments in 20 minute once or twice a week private or duo lessons with the band director, who gave parents a list of local private teachers should families have the funds to go that route....then started actually playing in the band shortly thereafter....

To us kids, it was a blast playing concert band, we didn't know we weren't 'masters'. In retrospect I DO wonder what those concerts really sounded like to our parents 😳 ...who of course went wild with applause regardless.
 
Good analogy. And it's so true that playing on the bandstand with a band is essential, even early-on. And (maybe) even if you really aren't totally ready for it, skill-wise. I said 'maybe' because it might not apply to everyone, but it sure helped me early on. Mostly it showed me I wasn't ready and had a lot to learn. Years ago, I started out in a blues band at the invitation of a guitar player (good player) friend. He gave me a list of tunes, and I got some records (yeah, vinyl) to play along to and try to learn the tunes. I was able to pick up some of it by ear and could play in 2 or 3 keys but knew almost nothing about chord changes. We did some rehearsals and actually got some gigs. I got by somewhat with the blues scale and trusted my (undeveloped) ear, but there were glaring issues that I became aware of. I really struggled with certain keys and it was a revelation when I discovered the I, IV & V chords.

I finally realized I had to learn those chords and began practicing in all keys. As well as learning the blues vocabulary (lines, riffs, etc.). After learning some of this stuff, I could try it out on the bandstand and began to get it figured out. Long story short, those early days (well, nights) playing with a band was very helpful. Eventually I studied music theory, and with practice, as well as experience on the bandstand, I got better. I've also found that, to this day, I have to play a tune with a band to really nail it down.

As a jazz fan (I don't really separate jazz from blues), I also worked on jazz tunes and some of them were incorporated in the bands I played in.

Playing live music for an audience is what it's all about.
Thanks for sharing that.

We are talking here about one specific path, the one that Alon is taking...pretty common path these days. Learn an instrument, start playing to backing tracks, start sounding OK to backing tracks.

This is really just a new millennium, hi-tech version of Abersold Music Minus One.

(Slight digression here) .Except back then....the Minus One was always intended to lead, next, to 'ok, now go play with other people'. It was a stepping stone tool, not the End Game. Somehow, now, it is the end game for (too) many. They go start looking for gigs, as a solo 'music minus one artist', or basically really, a 'karaoke' player. Just as amazingly, to me...venues will actually PAY someone to do that schtick. (Digression over).

My music nerd buds and I didn't just start jumping into jam sessions after we had been taking private lessons for a few years and were pretty adept at Stage Band Jazz, and some rock/pop.

We actually formed our own groups with our buds and practiced the tunes we wanted to perform , in someone's basement. That's where I was first confronted with chord progressions and theory. Up until then I was just playing notes on the charts in front of me.

So, it was pretty low pressure...we were among friends, nobody wuz gonna strafe you (too badly) if you filled a solo with clunkers or got lost. But everyone did expect that next time it'd be significantly better.

So that is how some also develop. Not backing tracks go 'dive in to a local jam' path. But the middle step of 'find a group at about your same level, maybe a tad above'.

Just saying, there is also that option (in some places....post an ad Craigslist, FB, whatever "beginner-intermediate jazz horn player looking for players at a similar level to do a weekly session and work on real book standards'. Geographically, in others, I understand that option doesn't really exist - 'the next nearest jazz players are two hours away' etc)
 

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