Saxophone beginners Frustrated with squeaking

[jbtsax]

I am enjoying this debate. Advice from two professionals that I can attempt/try. Keep it constructive and look forward to more input. It appears to me that it is difficult to teach emboucher. Is that right?

The way I was taught to teach the saxophone embouchure by Dr. Ray Smith at Brigham Young University is that the "EE" muscles pull out at the same time the "OO" muscles are pushing in at the corners of the mouth making a tug-o-war. For the clarinet the tug-o-war is a tie forming a flat chin and a stretched lower lip. For the saxophone the "OO" muscles win the tug-o-war although the "EE" muscles keep pulling nonetheless. This creates a more rounded chin and a more flexible lower lip.

The top teeth press on the top of the mouthpiece and the lower lip is rolled back just enough to cover the bottom teeth. The embouchure tightness is set by checking the pitch of the mouthpiece and neck together. Ab concert is the note for alto, and E concert is the note for tenor. That's all there is to it. With a short lesson on the airstream which consists of my blowing at the palm of the student's hand and having the student blow on my hand the same way, I can generally have a beginning student playing with a full characteristic saxophone tone in 10 minutes or less.

Once the neck and mouthpiece combination sounds great, then the saxophone is assembled and the student is instructed to play with the same embouchure and airstream on the sax as a whole. The Ab concert on the alto neck becomes a beautiful 5th line F on the sax. The E concert on the tenor neck becomes a beautiful F# on that sax.

 

[kevgermany]

Lets keep it friendly.

As a double lip player, who hates teeth on mouthpieces, I ususally side with the unconventional. So I'm staying out of this one. Each to his own, but lets not get obsessed with it.

 

[ozjett]

Lets keep it friendly.

As a double lip player, who hates teeth on mouthpieces, I ususally side with the unconventional. So I'm staying out of this one. Each to his own, but lets not get obsessed with it.

I agree with keep it friendly
But as the person who both started this thread (and misspelt beginner) I thought I should add my 2 cents As I am just starting out I and this is the beginners forum I don't see any place for the unconventional. and when it is all said and done the person who I am going to lesson to the most when it comes to technique is my own tutor Who if anybody is interested jbtsax got her vote.

And although I am in no position to disagree with gregerhillman's advice although my Tutor strongly did. I do think that sending people to your own site where your free content is setup to encourage people to buy your product does in my mind cheapen your advice a little I accept that this comment may not seem fair and I do not mean to offend but I think it is some ways human nature to feel that way.

 

[gregerhillman]

......
And although I am in no position to disagree with gregerhillman's advice although my Tutor strongly did. I do think that sending people to your own site where your free content is setup to encourage people to buy your product does in my mind cheapen your advice a little I accept that this comment may not seem fair and I do not mean to offend but I think it is some ways human nature to feel that way.

Hey Ozjett!

First, no you do not offend by speaking your mind. That's what's great with democracy!

I'd agree that it isn't fair. Especially if you haven't checked out the 18 videos that I've recorded, which will teach any beginner to play their first song on the sax. That's two weeks of prep, recording and post production based on my experience as a teacher and working musician. And it's free on my website.

If you don't know that, then I can see your point.
Thanks for sharing your opinion, I appreciate it!


You'll do fine with your tutor I'm sure and that's what's most important, right?

My best advice to you would be to keep an open mind.

My "so called unconventional" way of teaching how to position the mouthpiece isn't new or wrong. That statement is total .. .

There are just different ways to do it and this is how I teach..... and many more do it the same way.

However, you are not my student and you should listen to your tutor who is in the same room with you and who can guide you.

Feel free to contact me in the future if you need tips on developing your sound, dealing with tension in your jaw or if you have trouble with a soar lower lip.

You can probably get help with this by paying another tutor to help you with this or by buying the lesson needed online.
(Just a thought: isn't that the same thing?)

OR contact me and I'll help you out for free!


Play On!
//
Greger

 

[Saxdiva]

And although I am in no position to disagree with gregerhillman's advice although my Tutor strongly did. I do think that sending people to your own site where your free content is setup to encourage people to buy your product does in my mind cheapen your advice a little I accept that this comment may not seem fair and I do not mean to offend but I think it is some ways human nature to feel that way.

As your sax journey continues, you will realise that many very knowledgable and successful people have different opinions and ways to play and teach. In this case your teacher agrees with one of the methods given to you by way of advice, that of jbtsax. Your teacher charges you for your lessons so both he and Gregor have a business interest. However, Gregor took the time to answer your post, not just direct you to the site and, after all, you did ask for advice - why didn't you just ask your reacher?

Both jbtsax and Gregor have much experience and even if you don't agree, it would be polite to respect differing views and not to suggest one is worth less, just because you disagree.

I hope you keep an open mind as if you ask questions in future, you will find that for every two saxophonists, there are at least three points if view (to steal an old saying)!

Enjoy your journey.

 

[jbtsax]

Dr. Eugene Rousseau, Steps to Excellence

For anyone learning to play the saxophone or wanting to teach the saxophone at a higher level, Dr. Rousseau provides a superb model to emulate. Notice how every statement he makes is clear and concise. There is never any wasted language or statements going off track to distract from the central message of his lesson. When necessary a visual is given on screen to reinforce what is being taught, as well as examples performed by Dr. Rousseau to further demonstrate what he is describing.

As a professional music educator I know how challenging it is to teach with this level of focus and clarity. I once had the opportunity to study with one of Dr. Rousseau's students, and was able to experience first hand the profound effect Dr. Rousseau has had on not only the playing ability, but the teaching ability of the hundreds of students he has taught in his career of over 50 years.

[This was posted in another thread which I wanted to provide a link to in this thread, but the link in the original thread was no longer operating, so I have reprinted this post in this thread with an updated link as it is germane to the topic being discussed.]

 

[ProfJames]

Saxdiva - well said! Could not agree more!

 

[ozjett]

I have lurked around this forum for sometime before posting and found it to be a very friendly place But I have appeared to have upset people with one of my first posts for this I am very sorry I did not mean to this but after reading my post I do understand how it happened.
In my defence I did try to say how I felt right or wrong without offending anyone (I failed on this point).
I did not know that it was wrong to asked for advice when I had a teacher to ask.
I did not know that asking my teacher their view after receiving conflicting advice was wrong.
But please keep in mind that my question was not about which technique I should use but what was happening when at home not when I am with my teacher.
Once again I would like to apologise to everyone. But especially to Greger.
This will be my last post
ozjett

 

[kevgermany]

I have lurked around this forum for sometime before posting and found it to be a very friendly place But I have appeared to have upset people with one of my first posts for this I am very sorry I did not mean to this but after reading my post I do understand how it happened.
In my defence I did try to say how I felt right or wrong without offending anyone (I failed on this point).
I did not know that it was wrong to asked for advice when I had a teacher to ask.
I did not know that asking my teacher their view after receiving conflicting advice was wrong.
But please keep in mind that my question was not about which technique I should use but what was happening when at home not when I am with my teacher.
Once again I would like to apologise to everyone. But especially to Greger.
This will be my last post
ozjett

Just remember that people have strong views - and put a lot into answering questions on the fourm because the really want to help others.

You haven't done anything wrong.

There are traditionalists, and more modern methods of teaching. Same for music.... Who's to say what's better? The problems start when a teacher's teaching one way, and the student adopts conflicting advice from others. However it's always good to ask, think, understand what's going on. Some ideas work for one person, and not for another.

With the sax there are always conflicting views. Best to hear/see all sides of the argument, then make up your own mind. You'll end up favouring some ideas/methods over others, but that's OK. Sometimes we need to agree to differ, but what tends to happen is that things spiral down into an I'm right/You're wrong type of argument.

Don't withdraw - just keep on going.

 

[gregerhillman]

I have lurked around this forum for sometime before posting and found it to be a very friendly place But I have appeared to have upset people with one of my first posts for this I am very sorry I did not mean to this but after reading my post I do understand how it happened.
In my defence I did try to say how I felt right or wrong without offending anyone (I failed on this point).
I did not know that it was wrong to asked for advice when I had a teacher to ask.
I did not know that asking my teacher their view after receiving conflicting advice was wrong.
But please keep in mind that my question was not about which technique I should use but what was happening when at home not when I am with my teacher.
Once again I would like to apologise to everyone. But especially to Greger.
This will be my last post
ozjett

Hi Ozjett.
No need to apologize!
My offer stands!
Contact me if you want help with that.

Keep practicing and enjoy your saxophone!

Play On!
//Greger

 

[Reed Warbler]

Never mind the bickering Ozjett, hang on in here. Have you thought of asking your teacher round to your place?