Tech/maintenance Does the loose neck cork have to be replaced?

[atwl77]

After practicing today, I notice my neck cork is coming loose. It has not totally come off, just that little portion in the picture.

Do I need to replace the entire cork, or can I go with an easier/lazy solution like... say... stuffing some contact glue into the gap?

(Note that the gap is a bit exaggerated because I'm applying pressure to make it easier to notice)

 

[atwl77]

With most of the old stuff gone, I cut the new cork into shape, applied the contact glue, and got the new cork on. Two things that I learnt:

• Cutting the slanted/diagonal edge on the new cork was a bit trickier than expected, fortunately my knife was sharp enough and I think I did a decent job at it.
• Putting on the new cork wasn't as harrowing or hard as I had imagined. Guess I had cold feet for no good reason.

So now came the time to cut off the excess cork, and sand the thing down to size. Unfortunately, I only had 150 grit sandpaper, so that took a lot more effort than I had expected. As I was sanding down the cork, I used a cheap mouthpiece to test fit. It seemed like I had a lot of sanding to do... but unfortunately I got a bit impatient and tried to force-fit the reed. That... did not end well:

 

[atwl77]

Second attempt! Peeled off the cork, cleaned up the mess, and got a new cork cut and prepared.

This time I forced myself to be a lot more patient with the sandpapering job. Got the thing down to size, applied cork grease, and left the thing to sit while I went off for lunch and other errands:

Later that afternoon, I thought I was done. Cleaned up my work table, got my saxophone out and prepared for some practice.

Unfortunately, I didn't realize my sandpapering was a bit uneven... tapered, actually. While the mouthpiece fit nicely at the tip, it got tighter down the back. I thought I could push it through, as it didn't feel too tight at first... then this happened:

 

[mizmar]

Oops.

Cutting the slanted/diagonal

They do sell pre slant-cut cork for your second umm, third fifth try

 

[atwl77]

*sigh*

So... third attempt. Besides issues with sanding the cork, I may not have applied the contact glue correctly. Usually instructions say to let the glue sit for 10-15 minutes; I only let it sit until it didn't feel sticky to touch. Perhaps I should have stuck to instructions.

So this time I let the glue sit for a good 10+ minutes (well, it's 15 minutes from the perspective of the neck, 10 minutes from the perspective of the cork). Wow, this time the glue was practically dry to the touch, yet the two pieces still glued on quite well.

Also, some brands of contact glue mention maximum strength is achieved after 24 hours... so instead of immediately starting to sand the thing down to size, I'm going to let this sit for a day and then continue to work on it tomorrow.

In the meantime, tomorrow morning I might also want to drop by the hardware store and try to get some better sandpaper tools - i.e. the kind that is attached to a solid surface, should make sandpapering easier and less annoying. Maybe get some medium grit too, to get the thing down to size faster.

Wish me luck!

 

[turf3]

Seems typical of learning a new manual skill for the first time.

A suggestion is to take a tape measure (not the metal kind for carpentry, the cloth kind for clothing) and check the circumference of the cork at each end periodically to help you make it cylindrical. (I'd use a vernier caliper, but you probably don't have one of these.)

 

[atwl77]

vernier caliper

I do have one of those, good suggestion!

 

[turf3]

A key point - you must clean the substrate well before putting contact cement. I'd typically use rubbing alcohol to clean the neck.

 

[atwl77]

A key point - you must clean the substrate well before putting contact cement. I'd typically use rubbing alcohol to clean the neck.

Oops, a bit too late for that. I'll remember that if there is a 4th attempt! 😅

I did peel/scrape off remaining glue, then wipe the thing with a piece of cloth to clean off fingerprints and dust though...

 

[PiccoloPirate]

Always use a brand new razor blade.
Hope you know how to correctly
use a tourniquet. 😱

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7LTbuuGS6I

 

[Stephen Howard]

Well, you gave it a good go!
A few lesssons learned;

Liquid superglue is next to useless in the wrong hands - it gets everywhere. It's gel or nothing.
Patience is a virtue.
Modern domestic contact adhesives are a bit rubbish.
Surface prep is key (see what I did there?).
Experience is not merely knowing how to do the job, it's about knowing your materials too.
Don't go heavy on the sanding - it builds up heat. Take it nice and easy, let the grit do the work.
And - because it's so important - patience is a virtue.

You gave it the old college try, which is more than many folks will attempt, and that's a feather in your cap.
And...sometimes this job still goes wrong for me too!

 

[Pete Thomas]

What I hate is when you think it’s done, put the cork grease on and it’s still too tight. So then you have to sand a greasy cork.

 

[Stephen Howard]

What I hate is when you think it’s done, put the cork grease on and it’s still too tight. So then you have to sand a greasy cork.

Been there, done that. Rag the grease off with lighter fluid.

 

[Pete Thomas]

Been there, done that. Rag the grease off with lighter fluid.

Ah that’s where I’ve been going wrong, I squirted the lighter fluid on the neck cork then set fire to it. 🙂

 

[Targa]

Ah that’s where I’ve been going wrong, I squirted the lighter fluid on the neck cork then set fire to it. 🙂

The Hendrix method.

 

[PigSquealer]

Ah that’s where I’ve been going wrong, I squirted the lighter fluid on the neck cork then set fire to it. 🙂

That method works better for removing old shellac and warming the bench some.

 

[LostCircuits]

Couple of things here:
- Use a ball peen to tenderize the cork and when you do it, the cork will curl and you want it to curl in the direction that you need to wrap it around the neck
- Never do a butt joint on a neck cork. Before you put it on, sand one edge down to as thin as you can get it.
- Use 150 grit sandpaper for the taper and then maybe you go to 220 or 320 for the finish but it is not really necessary, in fact you may get better adhesion on a coarser surface.
- Always install the cork in the direction opposite to righty tidy lefty loosey. If you are right handed, install the cork counterclockwise because that's the natural way of "stretching it over the neck"
- Cut the overlapping piece of cork at the line where the taper ends and sand the area over the taper to a round shape
- Put a small bevel at the beginning of the cork
- Sand the rest of the cork but not too much.
- Use 320 grit or higher for finish and put on cork grease
- When you put on the MPC for the first time, go counterclockwise and very slow to compress the cork to fit the MPC
- When you put on the MPC any time after, go counterclockwise - never go clockwise unless it is a small adjustment

Putting a new cork on is a matter of 10 min or less but if you do it right, it'll last forever.

@Colin the Bear, I tried the synthetic "Valentino" cork a few times (you can get it dirt cheap from 3M) but I don't like it. If you are happy with it, good for you, and there are also these condom-like slip-over tubes but I found those even worse, just my personal experience).

 

[LostCircuits]

Well, you gave it a good go!
A few lesssons learned;

Liquid superglue is next to useless in the wrong hands - it gets everywhere. It's gel or nothing.
Patience is a virtue.
Modern domestic contact adhesives are a bit rubbish.
Surface prep is key (see what I did there?).
Experience is not merely knowing how to do the job, it's about knowing your materials too.
Don't go heavy on the sanding - it builds up heat. Take it nice and easy, let the grit do the work.
And - because it's so important - patience is a virtue.

You gave it the old college try, which is more than many folks will attempt, and that's a feather in your cap.
And...sometimes this job still goes wrong for me too!

Really, like in 10 degrees? Fahrenheit or Celsius?
Granted, if you stick the neck on a dowel and the dowel in a power drill and you use a loop of sandpaper to skinny the cork you could burn your pointer and thumb, is that what you are saying?

 

[thomsax]

I use tapered cork tubes instead of cork sheets. I think they are more durable.

Shellac is a fantastic adhesive! Forgiving and not so brutal as modern stuff.

A sootless flame ( modern "fan toarch" can also work). I prefer to to use an alcohol lamp.

Be careful when sanding old sax necks without ring. If you use a bench peg you peerhaps use too much presure when sanding so the neck can be damage.

I also use to warm the cork. Work "warm to warm".

This is an old-fashioned way to re-cork a saxophone neck. But I like it. Nice and slow.

 

[atwl77]

Third time's a charm!

Hardware store was surprisingly closed for some reason today... did not get my medium grit sandpaper. However, I did find a rectangular block of wood to wrap my 150 grit sandpaper around, this made sanding the cork so much easier.

Cleaned it up with some wet wipes and let it dry before applying cork grease.

Slowly and carefully inserted the mouthpiece while twisting anticlockwise. The mouthpiece went in very smoothly with the twisting motion, but at the end when I just wanted to adjust the rotation without pushing in or out, it did feel quite tight -- which is apparently normal, according to my local sax tech when I raised similar concerns about the tenor that I bought from him.

Anyway, I removed and reinserted the mouthpiece three more times just to make sure everything was alright, then left the mouthpiece on for an hour to get it compressed a bit. It's looking good! 😀

Only one issue to mar the experience, during one of the earlier attempts I got some scratches on the neck due to a bit of carelessness while sanding the cork. Doesn't appear to be anything more than superficial, so I hope it doesn't affect the lacquer or coating.

 

[Pete Thomas]

However, I did find a rectangular block of wood to wrap my 150 grit sandpaper around, this made sanding the cork so much easier.

I have a method for this (Might have got it from @Stephen Howard or else Im imagining it)

• Screw a small length (e.g. 1cm) of dowel into side of desk (small enough for neck cork end to fit over)
• Hold the other end of neck in place with abdomen
• This level two hands free take a small strip of sanparee.g. 20cm x 3cm and stand the lower side of cork with a back and forth motion
• Rotate neck 90 degrees and repeat
• Rotate neck 90 degrees and repeat
• Rotate neck 90 degrees and repeat