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Saxophones Cure for GAS

I have a Yamaha 25 alto and sometimes a GAS mood comes upon me and I speculate on whether I should 'upgrade'. Then I talk myself out of it with all sorts of arguments but I am still curious about what a more expensive 'pro' horn would be like. What would kill GAS would be to try out a supposedly better instrument and see what happens after a fortnight. If one ended up sounding the same then one might just return it and celebrate the money saved.
Well some places allow you to borrow stuff on approval
 
I have a Yamaha 25 alto and sometimes a GAS mood comes upon me and I speculate on whether I should 'upgrade'. Then I talk myself out of it with all sorts of arguments but I am still curious about what a more expensive 'pro' horn would be like. What would kill GAS would be to try out a supposedly better instrument and see what happens after a fortnight. If one ended up sounding the same then one might just return it and celebrate the money saved.

Out of all the altos I've had, my YAS-23 Vito still sounds great, even with five duff pads (still to be replaced). I suspect your 25 is similarly good.
If you've read Steve Howard's reviews he found his YTS-23 to be unbeatable over many decades until he tried a TJ Raw.

Part of my GAS was originally finding the best horn for me, but a greater part is exploring the differences between all the brands and models, expanding my personal knowledge, and the thrill of the chase when you find a bargain buy, especially when it's a rarity. However, rare horns are generally tricky to resell as few have heard of them, so they need to be cheap. The Vito borders on such obscurity amongst the great unwashed.
 
Playing a student horn or second hand vintage quickly reaches the point where the instrument is holding back development. The player doesn’t notice, struggles on, finds difficult what is easy, can’t make the next step up, commitment tails off in the mistaken belief their talent has reached it’s peak.
According to Hemke, a reasonable embroucher, with a good quality playable mouthpiece like a Van Doren Optimum or similar, should play every note easily, cleanly and in tune from low Bb to high F or F#, without adapting, ie moving tongue, tightening lips, etc. If your horn can’t do this, you need a far better instrument.
 
Playing a student horn or second hand vintage quickly reaches the point where the instrument is holding back development.
Not in my experience.
According to Hemke, a reasonable embroucher, with a good quality playable mouthpiece like a Van Doren Optimum or similar, should play every note easily, cleanly and in tune from low Bb to high F or F#, without adapting, ie moving tongue, tightening lips, etc. If your horn can’t do this, you need a far better instrument.
Or (more likely) a visit to a good tech or better breath control. Or maybe the embouchure isn't as reasonable as the student thinks. Took me quite a while to get that right and ten years in i still have to think about it sometimes.
 
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Playing a student horn or second hand vintage quickly reaches the point where the instrument is holding back development.

Not sure about a Vintage horn because I've never played one. I'm not so sure I'm ever going to be held back by my Yamaha 280. I really don't.
 
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On the Hemke issue Im gonna have to side with BigMartin....Afterall Hemke worked closely with Selmer...not to mention the fact that his students were likly functioning at a very high level.

Im all in for toys but not so much for rationalizations and excuses to buy. I say give yourself permission or dont. Might you sound better on a better horn? Very possible. Will you be a better player?.........Nope.
 
George, what I'm saying is that the quest for the best horn for YOU doesn't need to be expensive but it will make you a better player.

In the hands of a pro player a Jupiter 500 will sound great, but a novice has a better chance of sounding good with an SA80II than with a Jupiter, plus it will likely play easier too. My 100 horns haven't cost me a penny over 7 years and I still have four currently.

This only applies to 2nd hand horns. Buy new and you'll always lose.
Respectfully...I actually disagree with this. Taking your example, a beginner with a Jupiter 5XX series horn (a respectable instrument BTW) in good tack will have no 'easier' a time learning sax than a beginner with a French Selmer in good tack.

The only argument to be made really is that the intrinsic tonality of the Selmer is going to be, to most people's ears, sweeter than the Jupe. But I am not sure that necessarily translates into 'the player sounding better'...as 'sounding' goes beyond simply the horn's intrinsic tonality.

If the student cannot nail down timekeeping or breath support or good embouchure, then the student will sound bad on either horn.

If the student develops their fundamentals, then they will sound like a good, developing sax player on either....

Both are good instruments, and in good, serviced shape the cheaper horn will not 'hold the player back' in any way, IMHO.
 
Playing a student horn or second hand vintage quickly reaches the point where the instrument is holding back development. The player doesn’t notice, struggles on, finds difficult what is easy, can’t make the next step up, commitment tails off in the mistaken belief their talent has reached it’s peak.
Holy cow, with due respect that is one of the most subjective comments I have heard in a while. The fact is, plenty of pros play horns which, by your definition, should be hobbling them.

....yet the world is full of pros playing Yamaha 23's or 52's....or contemporary chinese jobbers which many a tech would raise their eyebrows at.

And there are many threads on the great jazzers who throughout their careers played on vintage model horns...didn't seem to slow 'em down none.

You intimate that there will come a point that...due to their HORN...the player will lose their initiative and commitment to becoming a good, developed player. This leaves me almost...speechless.
I mean, unless the horn is in poor tack, I cannot imagine how this would be so.

Give a player a good, reputed model of instrument (at whatever price point) in good playing condition....and they will not be 'harmed' in any way....


I'm all in for toys but not so much for rationalizations and excuses to buy. I say give yourself permission or dont. Might you sound better on a better horn? Very possible. Will you be a better player?.........Nope.

This ^^^^^

First ....EVERY saxophone is unnecessary.

:eek: SHHHHHHHHHHHHH !!!!!!!!!!
 
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I have a Yamaha 25 alto and sometimes a GAS mood comes upon me and I speculate on whether I should 'upgrade'. Then I talk myself out of it with all sorts of arguments but I am still curious about what a more expensive 'pro' horn would be like. What would kill GAS would be to try out a supposedly better instrument and see what happens after a fortnight. If one ended up sounding the same then one might just return it and celebrate the money saved.
A good way to look at it.

I can add this, as well:

Maybe investing in a different mouthpiece or putting some $ into some servicing with a tech who is very good at really 'dialing in' an instrument (quite arguably cheaper than buying a new to you 'professional' model) would also prove to be such a wise use of $ that you would be quite happy with the 'upgraded' performance and sound of the instrument (and therefore...of you).
 
I've got to laugh, reading this thread is a bit like sitting in a meeting with a financial advisor! .,Perhaps it won't be of any benefit musically but what harm can it do to buy sax that is deemed to be beyond your capabilities
 
Actually there is a Selmer Mark VI alto for sale in New Zealand at the moment on the NZ equivalent of ebay, TradeMe - for a mere NZD9,900.00 Buy Now price equivalent to USD6,500.00 / GBP5,300.00 / EUR5,800.00 or for our cousins across the ditch 9,500.00 of your finest Australian dollars...


so if your family name is Gates, Soros, Bezos, Buffet, Packer or Murdoch you should be able to afford it...:rofl:

Greg S.
 
Out of all the altos I've had, my YAS-23 Vito still sounds great, even with five duff pads (still to be replaced). I suspect your 25 is similarly good.
If you've read Steve Howard's reviews he found his YTS-23 to be unbeatable over many decades until he tried a TJ Raw.

I played my Chinese made YAS-23 for about six years before I bought a nicer horn.

After I took delivery of the new horn, I left the YAS-23 with my technician for some love and attention beyond the usual "Can you patch it together quickly? I've got a lesson tomorrow!". Well, when I got the horn back a couple of months later, the action was so smooth, light and slick that it would have made the upgrade decision harder if it had felt that way all along. Yes. Sure, I would have still bought a new horn, but I would have felt less justified.
 
I might be biased being more interested in tenor but does anyone else feel that its easier to get away with something like a 23 on alto than it is the same grade of instrument on tenor? I tend to really notice the differences in horns among tenors more than I do altos. Again...maybe its because Im listening more closely. Opinions?
 
I have 2 Alto's, a Yas 25 and an SA80II, both are set up very nicely but there's a world of difference between them in the sound quality. I keep the 25 because I have to walk through a pretty rough area for my lessons and given the choice would prefer to be mugged whilst I'm carrying that to and fro
 
I played my Chinese made YAS-23 for about six years before I bought a nicer horn.

After I took delivery of the new horn, I left the YAS-23 with my technician for some love and attention beyond the usual "Can you patch it together quickly? I've got a lesson tomorrow!". Well, when I got the horn back a couple of months later, the action was so smooth, light and slick that it would have made the upgrade decision harder if it had felt that way all along. Yes. Sure, I would have still bought a new horn, but I would have felt less justified.

Weren't the 23 series horns made in the Land Of The Rising Sun, i.e. Japan?:confused2:

Greg S.
 
I might be biased being more interested in tenor but does anyone else feel that its easier to get away with something like a 23 on alto than it is the same grade of instrument on tenor? I tend to really notice the differences in horns among tenors more than I do altos. Again...maybe its because Im listening more closely. Opinions?

My impression is that a thin tone is more noticeable in the higher register of an alto than that of a a tenor because the tenor has more built in roundness.
 
I have 2 Alto's, a Yas 25 and an SA80II, both are set up very nicely but there's a world of difference between them in the sound quality.

Agreed. In addition to the YAS-23, I also have an SA80II. There is a sound (as well as feel/ergonomic) difference.

Weren't the 23 series horns made in the Land Of The Rising Sun, i.e. Japan?:confused2:

Production of the YAS-23 shifted from Japan. First, to the United States and then to China during the last years of production.

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Actually, unlike others who suggested 'if it's a really good deal, get it"...in situations like this I always ask the person to consider:

how many trips/vacations/holidays to cool/interesting places would that $ buy...if you DON'T buy the item ?

I would say the experience of traveling to places you have never been to before (or places you HAVE, and Love) would trump owning a 'new' horn, actually....

I am sure a similar argument can be made for things other than trips....


I agree 100%. My daddy taught me to work hard, save money, and travel.
 
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