Tech/maintenance cork for mouthpieces - no alternatives yet?

[PigSquealer]

View attachment 31936

Looks familiar. Maybe my brother in law Hamel without his wedding ring?

 

[LostCircuits]

Scientifically every protein can cause a reaction of the immune system. The lenti cells in cork contain protein, so it is possible. Toxicology than looks at occupational hazards to find unsafe levels of exposion. In the case of copper toxity they measured the amount of Cu in the hairs of copper miners. In this case they looked at cork traders and found a specific disease: suberosis. If this was a scientific forum I would start my answer like this. But as we are discussing saxophones and the second line of my comment contained the scientific impossible Cork allergy it is appropriate to think of the other meaning of allergy which only exists in the mind.

Neoprene is weak for chlorinated solvents.

But suberosis is caused by mold, primarily penicillium and aspergillus growing on "moldy" cork. Cork is hypoallergenic but cork allergy is possible, albeit extremely rare.

One could run a large scale study on wine drinkers. comparing natural cork vs. the now prevailing particle board-style cork vs. plastic cork to see if there is any difference in reaction - I mean it is just a larger sample than saxophone players and presumable a higher level of exposure - who really sucks on the neck without MPC? 😉

 

[syevad]

I've tried (once again) to use one of those snazzy chinese cork replacement and come to the final conclusion:

NO GOOD

Totally unfit for purpose (but looks good). Firstly, installing these is a real pita (depending on the sax and the type of rubber/plastic being used). The main issue is due to the thickness of the product - I believe it should get thinner towards the back to allow the MP to be properly inserted...instead, it's a struggle to push the MP past middle way and if you dare to push it all the way (if you manage) taking it out is going to be a real challenge - in my case, I had to use a vice to keep the soprano neck in place.
Cork has a very useful advantage in being "plastic" (not just elastic), so when compressed it keeps its shape for much longer than this plastic rubber - the latter is going to retaing that springing force making the removal of the MP much harder.

If you bought some of these - this is my solution (another bold statement...don't just chuck away "plastic" try to find good use of it first...

GOOD
And I've done my 1 cent to help the environment too - I can sleep better...

 

[Dr G]

I had to use a vice to keep the soprano neck in place.

Oh my…. 😱

Cork has a very useful advantage in being "plastic" (not just elastic), so when compressed it keeps its shape for much longer than this plastic rubber - the latter is going to retain that springing force making the removal of the MP much harder.

I suspect the issue is more of stiction than radial forces, but I am glad that you got the mouthpiece off.

Now you can resume working on your perfect pitch - hitting the rubbish can from across the room without touching the rim.

 

[PigSquealer]

I had to use a vice to keep the soprano neck in place.

🤯 the neck/receiver is very small. Do see a quality technician to make it fit proper ! You don’t want to damage the receiver.

 

[PigSquealer]

I suspect the issue is more of stiction than radial forces

I agree. Even though this is silicone, it’s not exactly slippery. Actually, it’s quite the opposite, sticky. At the same time I don’t know if cork grease would make things better or worse. That being the mouthpiece not staying in position. So?

 

[syevad]

The grease helps a bit and saliva is even better but then in a way these make it worst because the last thing you want is to push the MP "too deep" - as I mentioned getting it out in that case can be a real challenge (whether stiction or lack of plasticy) - the vice (with rubbery sides) was holding the neck in several strategic spots to spread the load and I've used 2 hands to twist the MP out - all relatively safe (apart from risking a hernia) and a pro would cost more than this cheap but very reliable G4M.

Btw - the silicon tube (medical stuff) I bought is working ok with the Sopranino - I think this is because the depth required for the MP is minimal (a bit more than a centimeter)...so far so good, that's the only sax where this rubbery stuff works in my experience (forget about the rest).

 

[Colin the Bear]

There are silicone tubes available made specifically to replace neck cork. Perhaps the composition is different to medical grade silicone tubes.

Saliva isn't a viable lubricant for this application. It will disappear and leave the parts bonded.

I wouldn't recommend holding a soft brass tube in any sort of vice. Rubber Jaws not withstanding. The chance of deforming it is high and any slight deformation will cause issues.

 

[turf3]

You know, the properties of cork have evolved over something like 50 million years, but y'all seem to feel that a manmade material that's existed for 60 must be superior. I grant you cork was not evolved to provide a specific blend of frictional and compression properties, but evolved natural materials are often highly complex in ways that synthetics can't be. There are good reasons why certain woods are superior tonewoods for stringed instruments, why leather remains the superior choice for shoes and bicycle saddles, why actual vegetables can't be successfully replaced by a nutrition tablet. The assumption that in this application there must be a better material and that it must be manmade disregards an awful lot of reality.

 

[Woodpad]

Btw - the silicon tube (medical stuff) I bought is working ok with the Sopranino - I think this is because the depth required for the MP is minimal (a bit more than a centimeter)...so far so good, that's the only sax where this rubbery stuff works in my experience (forget about the rest).

Most crooks start as a tube and become conical. As long as you use the silicone tube only on the tubular length you can use it for most saxophones. with an exception for the ones that start conical.

 

[Hoosierken]

It sounds dumb but I like silicone sleeves with Teflon tape.

 

[Dr G]

Most crooks start as a tube and become conical. As long as you use the silicone tube only on the tubular length you can use it for most saxophones. with an exception for the ones that start conical.

The only “tubular” (cylinder) part of a crook is the tenon. That is why a freshly applied bit of sheet cork needs to be sanded to form a cylinder on its outer diameter.

 

[lydian]

Most crooks start as a tube and become conical. As long as you use the silicone tube only on the tubular length you can use it for most saxophones. with an exception for the ones that start conical.

This clearly isn't true. There's an obvious conical shape from the very beginning. Surely you see this when you replace a neck cork.

 

[Woodpad]

The only “tubular” (cylinder) part of a crook is the tenon. That is why a freshly applied bit of sheet cork needs to be sanded to form a cylinder on its outer diameter.

This clearly isn't true. There's an obvious conical shape from the very beginning. Surely you see this when you replace a neck cork.

So I pick up the nearest crook without cork. It is a Beagnier alto. First 25 mm are cilindrical.

 

[syevad]

There are silicone tubes available made specifically to replace neck cork. Perhaps the composition is different to medical grade silicone tubes.

Saliva isn't a viable lubricant for this application. It will disappear and leave the parts bonded.

I wouldn't recommend holding a soft brass tube in any sort of vice. Rubber Jaws not withstanding. The chance of deforming it is high and any slight deformation will cause issues.

I don't know if you bought any of them and if it works for you - probably different makes different results?...
Then, have you seen the picture? The blue one is one "specifically" made to replace neck cork - as advertised on flybay about 7 years ago and bought 3 different types from 3 different sellers - (all crap)...in fact I believe that's the typical eastern product made only to make money (there are many other examples) these fulfill a demand but haven't properly being tested - as long as some stuff is sold for profit they don't care.
These sort of product should be banned from the start - of course the manufacturers are guilty...but then we the customers sometimes are just too gullable (I put myself in the picture too) and should be more careful.
Then, I'm very aware the saliva can be a formidable glue in certain cases and in due time...but in my case the effect is immediate - you push it too far and you are done and roasted.

 

[syevad]

As far as physics is concerned - all saxes are conical from start to bottom - only, not that obvious from the start...
If it was a perfect "tube" (cylinder) for an inch or 25mm from the "start" I wouldn't had struggled so much to push it in or pull it out...that's why these useless pieces of silicone labelled as cork replacement are completely garbage being simply cut out from single standard thickness without any research - at least those I bought (if you know better, pls let me know).
Then, when using cork usually we need to sand more from the far side...(case closed).

 

[PigSquealer]

If you guys need any more examples let me know. I have twenty or thirty more.

 

[lydian]

@PigSquealer , what exactly am I looking at? If it's cone vs cylinder, show how the diameter changes (or doesn't).

 

[Dr G]

OK, so that’s one more reason that the horns of the ‘20s sound as they do. It is literally compromised from the start.

 

[Ghr9204]

Saliva isn't a viable lubricant for this application. It will disappear and leave the parts bonded.

At times when I forgot my stick of cork grease, I wetted my artificial mouthpiece cork (the stuff made of real ground cork bits with a flexible binder) on my tenor with saliva, which got me through a rehearsal. It is better than nothing.

@PigSquealer , what exactly am I looking at? If it's cone vs cylinder, show how the diameter changes (or doesn't).

I think the answer is obvious. The neck's entrance is cylindrical for about the first 60 mm, then goes conical. As I recall, my Jupiter Vito tenor's neck is like that. (I replaced the bad cork with synthetic cork sheet mentioned above.)

I am all for newer materials being substituted for cork. As manufacturers find suitable replacements, it can only improve things. There appeared to be some resistance to synthetic pads, but IMO now they seem to have found their place.

My gut level feeling is that perhaps a better lubricant for an artificial cork replacement is silicon grease?