Tech/maintenance cork for mouthpieces - no alternatives yet?

[Ghr9204]

The E makes all the difference.

What exactly are you referring to?

 

[Pete Thomas]

What exactly are you referring to?

Silicon vs silicone?

Tech/maintenance - cork for mouthpieces - no alternatives yet?

@JayeNM "Consider for an instant...pads. Exact SAME specifications for sax pads today as they were 110 years ago, really. Yeah some tweaks, but really basically same thing - cardboard backing, felt, leather." I have a rare Toptone "vintage" tt25 - the basculant resopads are much more reliable...

cafesaxophone.com

 

[turf3]

Silicon vs silicone?

Tech/maintenance - cork for mouthpieces - no alternatives yet?

@JayeNM "Consider for an instant...pads. Exact SAME specifications for sax pads today as they were 110 years ago, really. Yeah some tweaks, but really basically same thing - cardboard backing, felt, leather." I have a rare Toptone "vintage" tt25 - the basculant resopads are much more reliable...

cafesaxophone.com

Ayyup.

Silicon is a hard brittle glass like substance (an element).

Silicone is the name for several families of compound that are polymers that contain repeating functional groups of Si-O and organic groups attached with the Si. Mostly used to form oils/greases and rubbers.

 

[Ghr9204]

Ayyup.

My misspelling, sorry. (We all do it at one time or another.)

 

[PigSquealer]

Stuff I have comes in a large tube available at swimming pool supplies places. It is anything but hard and brittle.

I hate that stuff. It’s more like a non- hardening thick paste. What I have is a liquid the consistency of thick pancake syrup. A drop goes for miles.

 

[Colin the Bear]

The E makes all the difference.

So don't take them.

 

[PigSquealer]

@PigSquealer, Thanks for taking the time to do that and post the results. Looks can be deceiving. Turns out even the ones that look straight are conical, with York being the oldest and least conical. Glad I'm not losing my marbles. I know for sure that every cork I've replace on every sax I've had in the past 50 years has been conical because one end wraps around farther than the other. Granted, my one and only hundred year old horn has a microtuner, so all bets are off there.

.002 to .005 @ 1.5 inches is not exactly conical. That can be just some residual dirt or shellac.
@ 0 to 1.75” A increase of .003 to .019 (mostly in the last 1/4”) is more likely distortion from forming the tube. I would expect a true conical to start relatively closer to end and progress at a higher degree angle.

A Conn micro tuner is conical inside and out in the cork area. The sliding interior tube is straight the full range distance, +/- 1.5”. That being from center to full in .750 and center out .750

 

[Ghr9204]

I hate that stuff. It’s more like a non- hardening thick paste. What I have is a liquid the consistency of thick pancake syrup. A drop goes for miles.

Have you ever used it? Same consistency as the stuff plumbers use. It only requires a touch. And, it is a bit more fluid than regular axle grease. I suppose I could mix it with Marvel's Mystery Oil if I wanted a liquidy lubricant. Good about it is it is safe on rubber parts, why it is used to lubricate O-rings on swimming pool filters, valves and pump components. Plumbers use it on faucet rubber washers, etc.

I was thinking of it as a possible application for silicone tubing used as a mouthpiece cork replacement. It might provide better lubricity for installing and removing mouthpieces without hardening and binding, mouthpiece sticking to the silicone tube.

Since I don't have this situation to deal with, (all my sax necks are cork or synthetic cork), naturally I wouldn't use it because I already have more than my share of cork grease "chapsticks". But, since my horns are mine, I wouldn't hesitate to try it as a cork grease replacement on one of my horns as a test case. Worst would be to simply wipe the excess off and return to the tried and true.

 

[PigSquealer]

I hate that stuff. It’s more like a non- hardening thick paste.

Have you ever used it?

I usually don’t make statements without experience.

I’ll add to the information below.
It attracts dirt.
Should you be unfortunate and drop a part. Clean and start over.
Place your pool filter top near anything gritty on windy day. Well that’s an hour to clean off.

 

[Ghr9204]

I usually don’t make statements without experience. I’ll add to the information below. It attracts dirt. Should you be unfortunate and drop a part. Clean and start over. Place your pool filter top near anything gritty on windy day. Well that’s an hour to clean off.

I have a 14'x28' in ground pool in my backyard with a diatomacious filter and live in windy dusty eastern New Mexico.

 

[Dr G]

I have a 14'x28' in ground pool in my backyard with a diatomacious filter and live in windy dusty eastern New Mexico.

Well, then! You can put whatever you want on your saxophone neck cork!

The rest of us should heed PigSquealer’s advice.

For red flags and clues regarding why NOT to use random advice on the interweb, look for some of the classics. When people tell you that they’ve never tried it, but it should work, that’s often a sign that they are blowing smoke. Mixing random combinations is also a bad idea since you don’t know whether the two are even miscible.

Have you ever used it? Same consistency as the stuff plumbers use. It only requires a touch. And, it is a bit more fluid than regular axle grease. I suppose I could mix it with Marvel's Mystery Oil if I wanted a liquidy lubricant. Good about it is it is safe on rubber parts, why it is used to lubricate O-rings on swimming pool filters, valves and pump components. Plumbers use it on faucet rubber washers, etc.

I was thinking of it as a possible application for silicone tubing used as a mouthpiece cork replacement. It might provide better lubricity for installing and removing mouthpieces without hardening and binding, mouthpiece sticking to the silicone tube.

Since I don't have this situation to deal with, (all my sax necks are cork or synthetic cork), naturally I wouldn't use it because I already have more than my share of cork grease "chapsticks". But, since my horns are mine, I wouldn't hesitate to try it as a cork grease replacement on one of my horns as a test case. Worst would be to simply wipe the excess off and return to the tried and true.

FWIW, I have used various viscosities of silicone oil for preserving seals and O-rings. It’s good for its jobs. Putting it on a sax cork is a REALLY BAD IDEA.

 

[syevad]

At last - this looks the perfect solution:
the materials needed:
1) silicone - surgical standard, cheap and many sizes available
2) heat-shrink tube - the one I've used for soprano is 22.2mm when flattened (a bit less than 1 inch).
3) sticky stuff to apply on the brass before inserting the silicone - maybe this isn't necessary (in my case, it was sticky from previous cork installation.

Now, what's great about this is:
1) The MP slides much better along the heat shrink than on bare silicone
2) You can control the thickness of the heat shrink - the more the heat the more it contracts (this is a very fine adjustment - but it can make all the difference.
3) the combination of silicone + heat shrink stays in place - maybe the sticky stuff on the brass is the key but the heat shrink also form a tight belt which might help in stopping the silicone sliding along the brass.

In some MP I haven't used any grease but if necessary a bit of grease or even water helps.

Long term usage will tell if this is going to be better than cork for users like myself who change MPs often. The main advantage? It doesn't compact like with cork - the silicone isn't in contact with moisture and the heat shrink is impermeable.

 

[syevad]

oh...I've forgot another advantage - no seam...and the heat shrink can be changed/replaced easily (eg. different colours and thickness).

 

[PigSquealer]

heat-shrink tube - the one I've used for soprano is 22.2mm when flattened (a bit less than 1 inch).

What’s the grade / wall thickness and shrink ratio. IE 22.2mm will reduce to 16.0mm.
Your choice of heat source ?

 

[syevad]

What’s the grade / wall thickness and shrink ratio. IE 22.2mm will reduce to 16.0mm.
Your choice of heat source ?

I dont' know about the grade and wall thickness but it's very thin. Heatgun of course...
So far it's working well - a better seal and stability is easily achieved by using a longer heat shrink tube which overlaps the silicone eg. by an extra 10mm.

 

[PigSquealer]

I dont' know about the grade and wall thickness but it's very thin.

The specification information is printed on the side of the material. Your picture doesn’t show all of the information.

 

[Woodpad]

At last - this looks the perfect solution:
the materials needed:
1) silicone - surgical standard, cheap and many sizes available
2) heat-shrink tube - the one I've used for soprano is 22.2mm when flattened (a bit less than 1 inch).
3) sticky stuff to apply on the brass before inserting the silicone - maybe this isn't necessary (in my case, it was sticky from previous cork installation.

The sticky stuff is necessary to keep the brass below the silicone dry. Otherwise it could become green.

 

[r. giuseppe]

From an environmental perspective I’d prefer tree over something made of oil.
But I switched to synthetic rubber cork on the key work, because it is better in memorising its original size. It holds precise adjustments way longer than natural cork.

That’s exactly the reason why I still don’t see real competition for natural cork on a neck. The neck cork can be slightly large and just compress easily to fit (slightly) different mouthpieces at different temperatures. Synthetic can’t. Plus cork can be re-expanded with heat, which is always easier to find (as long as someone still smokes) compared to Teflon tape.

 

[Targa]

From an environmental perspective I’d prefer tree over something made of oil.
But I switched to synthetic rubber cork on the key work, because it is better in memorising its original size. It holds precise adjustments way longer than natural cork.

That’s exactly the reason why I still don’t see real competition for natural cork on a neck. The neck cork can be slightly large and just compress easily to fit (slightly) different mouthpieces at different temperatures. Synthetic can’t. Plus cork can be re-expanded with heat, which is always easier to find (as long as someone still smokes) compared to Teflon tape.

I’d say re-expand with heat as long as someone still makes a cup of tea.

 

[r. giuseppe]

I’d say re-expand with heat as long as someone still makes a cup of tea.

Only beer down here…