Saxophones Conn 150th Anniversary Alto Saxophone

[Ghr9204]

A high percentage of the companies products are stenciled. They make a good quality product at each price point. If they are the maker of the 150 and it’s properly finished assembled. I”ll bet it’s a good player. The CAS81 is a great playing quality horn.

Regarding stencils, all my Le Blanc Vito saxes are good players whether Beaugnier or Jupiter. I read the story of the demise of the Le Blanc Corporation. Read briefly some info on when the old man passed away, he apparently didn't have the right family member with the skills and vision he had take over, why it is now a part of Conn-Selmer.

While alive, he chose the right subcontractor (Beaugnier, which became a part of Le Blanc; Yanagisawa; Yamaha; KHS Jupiter) to make his stencils or sometimes parts thereof for final assembly in US.

Since, the Vito line has been dropped altogether.

The 150 may be a good player. But at a pricing point where one could buy a Yamaha YAS-62-III silver plated for $4,500 then have $2,500 change for other things, adds a little perspective, IMO.

My convictions are although the sax helps, it is mainly the artist that makes the sax shine. The sax is a tool.

 

[PigSquealer]

It appears the last Conn branded saxophones were made in 1984 according to the Conn Loyalist site.
Honestly, I think the marketing department forgot the history of numbering the model. This should have been the 156M Conn Artist.
Connfirmation is to close to Connstipation.

Old school SN# area too could have been used.

PATD Dec.8. 1914
1119984
156M
A
001-040
L
Assembly in USA from parts made anywhere
This product requires adult supervision

The full model list link.

Pagina niet gevonden - mijnweb.site

Deze pagina bestaat niet of is niet meer beschikbaar. Oude XS4ALL-homepages zijn soms nog terug te vinden via webarchieven.

cderksen.home.xs4all.nl

 

[Ivan]

puffery

Word of the day

 

[thomsax]

It appears the last Conn branded saxophones were made in 1984 according to the Conn Loyalist site.
Honestly, I think the marketing department forgot the history of numbering the model. This should have been the 156M Conn Artist.
Connfirmation is to close to Connstipation.

Old school SN# area too could have been used.

PATD Dec.8. 1914
1119984
156M
A
001-040
L
Assembly in USA from parts made anywhere
This product requires adult supervision

The full model list link.

Pagina niet gevonden - mijnweb.site

Deze pagina bestaat niet of is niet meer beschikbaar. Oude XS4ALL-homepages zijn soms nog terug te vinden via webarchieven.

cderksen.home.xs4all.nl

View attachment 31334

DJH Modified models are from the days when Daniel Henkins owned Conn. Keilwerth influenced saxes. Henkins owned King as well. He bought King Musical Instruments from King creditors in 1983.

 

[globoglobito]

If something at least the sax appears to have a nice hand engraved engraving. Something that is becoming rarer and rarer even at high price points.

 

[PigSquealer]

DJH Modified models are from the days when Daniel Henkins owned Conn. Keilwerth influenced saxes. Henkins owned King as well. He bought King Musical Instruments from King creditors in 1983.

So were these actually Conn saxes ? If not I’m guessing the last Conn was produced in mid 1970’s ?

 

[thomsax]

So were these actually Conn saxes ? If not I’m guessing the last Conn was produced in mid 1970’s ?

It's soo hard to say who did what back then. I played a DJH modified tenor the other year and it was a sax with wide bow and "rolled" toneholes which is Keilwerth signum. Nice sax. Made by Keilwerth in Nauheim/VEB or in USA? Lots of new owners , "cross ownership" and they were active in more than one country. Globalization!. I think Conn student saxes were made in Eastlake OH as well. Side by side with King "613" abd "615". Just "student saxes".

 

[helen]

So were these actually Conn saxes ? If not I’m guessing the last Conn was produced in mid 1970’s ?

View attachment 31337View attachment 31338View attachment 31339

The DJH-made horns I've seen were made by Keilwerth in Germany. The stamping on the horns indicates that.

IMG 1879 |

IMG 1879 - IMG_1879.jpg

bassic-sax.info

 

[JayeNM]

So a few things:

The price for a limited edition sax, if of pro quality as far as intonation, action, precision of construction, and blowing response...of around $7g Alto...is NOT outrageous (I mean, it IS, but a friggin' Yamaha student base model new costs over $2300 .....so....

The big question has nothing to do with the magic bellbrace (UGLY as hell btw, I mean for gosh sake not only is it super-clunky looking but the finish matches NOTHING else in the aesthetic they were shooting for).

The big question has nothing to do with the reality that these are asian parts assembled in USA, so to intimate it as a 'US-made sax' is a bit of a reach.

The big question isn't - 'why, if you wanted to do this deluxe throwback model, would you NOT have given it a 6m/26m/28m-style underslung neck ?' These ARE the models that this horn is referencing, looks-wise.

The big question is:

what are the body and neck specs ? I am gonna GUESS what they DID NOT DO... is:

Reverse design those specs from an actual 6M or 28M or 30M body (although they could've done that, relatively easily and quite legally). IF they DID that, then $7g isn't an 'unreasonable' price tag, methinks (again assuming precision and quality of fabrication is good).

Why am I being skeptical ? Because IF they HAD done THAT...they most certainly would have SAID SO, no ?

But the semantics of the marketing, as others have picked up on, just use the new millennium buzzwords we have read 100 times before, really.

So IF it ends up just being a run-of-the-mill, off-the-line asian-sorta-copy of the typical/common asian body specs we see all over the place, then indeed all this is is the usual with different furniture and engraving.

They did do RTH, which is nice but I fear that the reality is they are just RTH on a sorta generic asian body....
I mean Buffet, Eastman to name a few actually did ENGINEER body specs which impart a 'vintagey' darkish tonality...did Conn Selmer actually tweak something to do the same, at the VERY least ?

Conn-Selmer...currently...makes respectable albeit unremarkable saxes (or maybe they DO make a GREAT model - truth be told in all the years I have been wasting my time on internet chatboards 😳

 

[JayeNM]

...I cannot recall anyone who really, really deeply investigated Conn-Selmer's top-line horns and given an assessment... does anyone know of any ?

So, fair chance it's just a Conn-Selmer body spec which they dressed up old-skool-looking. Which would be too bad.

But if they are gonna appear at trade shows, it'd be interesting for someone to report back after playtesting

 

[JayeNM]

The DJH-made horns I've seen were made by Keilwerth in Germany. The stamping on the horns indicates that.

IMG 1879 |

IMG 1879 - IMG_1879.jpg

bassic-sax.info

Yeah, so those cannot be considered the last US-made Conns. Henkin decided that to resuscitate a pro model Conn, he had to subcontract that line out.
The question becomes, Henkin purchased Conn from Macmillan and returned at least SOME production to US soil....but that was for the second shelf-line 16M, 18M, 20M, 21M alto models and the 11M/12M baritones- so does the end of the Henkin era (1983-4 when he was bought out by UMI) represent the "last Conns" ?

The Henkin-era 16M and baritones were STILL the same design as it had been 20 years before when made in Elkhart. Matter of fact, UMI KEPT MAKING the 16M and 12M/11M design under their ownership for several years after the buyout. These are the "Block Letter Logo" Conns you see occasionally.

Those... again... WERE the real Conn specs from Elkhart...so I would say at the point UMI discontinued those models (16M and 12M/11M)...is the point when 'the last Conns ended...." and that was around '87-88 or so, I think (?)

OR..since UMI did buy out Henkin, kept producing Conns in USA until what ? 2002 I think... although they completely redesigned their last Conn models so they bear NO spec resemblence to the above models (these UMI models being the 22M, 24M, 25M, 14M baritone, etc; all pretty respectable, I might add)....would those UMI horns still labeled Conn be considered the "last Conns" ??? If so, then the 'end' was '03-'04-ish when Conn-Selmer (then called Selmer Inc.) bought out UMI.

 

[JayeNM]

It appears the last Conn branded saxophones were made in 1984 according to the Conn Loyalist site.

No that is inaccurate (at least in the semantics as you wrote it). The last " Conn-branded" saxes ended in '02-'03-ish. UMI kept using the Conn name up until they got bought-out.

They also still marketed King and Armstrong saxes up until then, too. UMI owned all those - Conn, King, Armstrong, plus Artley flutes, staring in '84.
But all three name brands were the same model horns, just with 3 different engravings sold under 3 different 'brands' (i.e. the Conn 22M was the same horn as the King 662 and the Armstrong 3055...the Conn 24M was the same horn as the King Empire....the Conn 14M baritone was also sold under the Armstrong brand/label/engraving...etc...)

Loyalist could be looking at it like Conn, as an independent brand/company, not part or under an amalgamated umbrella, DID cease in '84 upon Henkin selling out.....

But Conn-"branded", made in US saxes did not vanish until UMI sold out.

 

[Jimmymack]

They do say it has “unsurpassed acoustics and resonance” although it’s not clear what this relates to. I want to hear from somebody who has seen, touched and played one. Kessler are supposed to have three of them so somebody must have by now but I seem to be locked out of the alto part of their site. I’m holding my breath.

 

[Pete Thomas]

They do say it has “unsurpassed acoustics and resonance” although it’s not clear what this relates to.

Resonance usually relates to something vibrating, e.g. a guitar or piano soundboard. Or a bell when you strike it. I’m not aware that saxophones have any significant resonance. Or do they?

 

[Jimmymack]

Well this one has, that's a direct quote, and it says it's unsurpassed, although if it's as you say and they don't have much resonance in the first place then it's maybe not so hard to surpass it.

 

[PigSquealer]

First actually being played !!!

View: https://youtu.be/PsBTfOTjpQE?si=geIvo_diFpHLocXM


Humm…

View: https://youtu.be/pKT0UN-jwvQ?si=8IEi1SeXTZgCY-ka

 

[PigSquealer]

The big question isn't - 'why, if you wanted to do this deluxe throwback model, would you NOT have given it a 6m/26m/28m-style underslung neck ?' These ARE the models that this horn is referencing, looks-wise.

A micro tuner too.

 

[Ghr9204]

They do say it has “unsurpassed acoustics and resonance” although it’s not clear what this relates to.

It meets the classic definition of "puffery". IMO, nearly all companies do this to a certain extent. We separate the fat from the meat and potatoes.

I listened to the videos that @PigSquealer posted. The monologue on the second video emphasized the inscription on the back, "ASSEMBLED IN U.S.A. from foreign and domestic parts" as meaning mainly from US parts and foreign secondary.

As worded, one would think that by placing "foreign" first then "domestic" second would indicate the primary and secondary sources. I am not big on sales pitches.

Regarding use of "Bach brass", if true just means they use the same spec'd brass.

My impressions are that more TLC was performed on this sax to ensure everything was in order from top to bottom, properly selected springs sprung correctly, perfection of pad heights to ensure clarity and tuning, keywork fit and finish reworked so that everything performs smoothly and flawlessly.

The real test will be objective professionals and advanced players testing it, someone who is independent and does not have a vested interest in the company.

Personally if it is so great I could dispense with its antique finish and opt with standard clear or tinted lacquer. I see no merit on an antique finish on a new sax, but that is just me.

Perhaps this is a prelude for the company to re-initiate the Conn brand with a complete new line up?

 

[skeller047]

I watched the videos as well, thanks @PigSquealer ! One thing that escaped my notice looking at the ad pictures, they put one of those flimsy keyguards over the low C# !!! No mention of this anywhere. I think this is the most unique thing about this horn. I’m not gonna buy one, though I’d like to play one. I’ll keep my eyes peeled to see if there is one nearby and go try it.

To my recollection (admittedly poor) this is the only saxophone I have ever seen with a keyguard over the low C#. The exception is those horns with the J-shape keyguard, like Yamaha, where covering the C# is kind of an afterthought. But this is deliberate, a wire keyguard covering low C and C# both. And yet they don’t mention it anywhere.

 

[Ghr9204]

But this is deliberate, a wire keyguard covering low C and C# both. And yet they don’t mention it anywhere.

I recall earlier in this discussion, the use of wire guards brought up concerns of potential inadequate key protection from normal hazards encountered during handling and play.

Perhaps by not mentioning them was to keep the focus off the discussion of them? When selling an item, one doesn't bring up its weak points.