Saxophone beginners Come on now, join the band....(Beginners blog)

[Ivan]

...eventually you’ll find you cannot get lost because you always recognize where you are...

... Assuming the rest of the band know where they are...

 

[Colin the Bear]

... Assuming the rest of the band know where they are...

Somebody will decide.

 

[ghostler]

FWIW, I think your band has a great repertoire. I've learned the most about 'playing music' from playing in community bands

The good is the quantity of music the band plays, helps get one rounded out quicker. They go through all the tunes they will be playing. One "woodsheds" at home so they are prepared for the rehearsal. This is a difference between performance and academic bands.

When I was with the military bands, we were focused on sight reading. At times we would get a last minute booking. The band librarian would stuff all the music folders with new music. We'd be doing a sight reading concert or ceremony.

I learned a technique to accomplish this. Quickly scan the music piece, determine up front the key signatures, all repeats, codas, dynamic markings and tempos. Take quick notice of "busy" spots. As playing, the eyes scan ahead a couple bars, so ready to play when we are there. (And, set the top of your music stand just below the conductor's hands, so you can observe the conductor with your peripheral vision. - Concert band configuration.)

It cures "tunnel vision" from academic rehearsal settings, if you know what I mean.

 

[Ivan]

Somebody will decide.

So long as it's not the audience

 

[ghostler]

So long as it's not the audience

Hopefully not helping the restaurant owner with mopping floors because the audience left early? 😉

 

[Colin the Bear]

Attending a local big band gig we noticed the third number getting a little muddled. A drum solo broke out. After sixteen bars or so was heard, ONE, TWO, ONE TWO THREE FOUR...and the band kicked in as one.

 

[MikeMorrell]

The good is the quantity of music the band plays, helps get one rounded out quicker. They go through all the tunes they will be playing. One "woodsheds" at home so they are prepared for the rehearsal. This is a difference between performance and academic bands.

When I was with the military bands, we were focused on sight reading. At times we would get a last minute booking. The band librarian would stuff all the music folders with new music. We'd be doing a sight reading concert or ceremony.

I learned a technique to accomplish this. Quickly scan the music piece, determine up front the key signatures, all repeats, codas, dynamic markings and tempos. Take quick notice of "busy" spots. As playing, the eyes scan ahead a couple bars, so ready to play when we are there. (And, set the top of your music stand just below the conductor's hands, so you can observe the conductor with your peripheral vision. - Concert band configuration.)

It cures "tunnel vision" from academic rehearsal settings, if you know what I mean.

I'm truly in awe of people like you who can play busy spots pretty much 'prima vista'! I can play fairly simply (and slow) pieces 'prima vista' but nothing like any of the (amateur) Big Band pieces I play. We very occasionally hire in a 'professional' that someone knows for a performance. Usually as a replacement for someone who can't make it. Less often just to complement an incomplete section.

Each time, it truly amazes me that the 'professionals' just turn up on the day, quickly scan through their parts and play them (including solo's) 'prima vista'. And much better than us amateurs, who been rehearsing our (new) parts for months!

I recognize the technique that you describe. This is what I do for any new piece prior to rehearsals. So that I've marked the structure, key changes, repeats, etc. in advance. And also the 'busy spots' for me a.k.a. 'challenging spots' which I know I have to practice in advance and gradually (in rehearsals) build up some 'muscle memory'. FWIW, I also go through the 'busy spots' noting which alternative work best between notes. I can't imagine going through this technique for a whole repertoire just a few days before a performance! Once again, respect!

Even after all these years playing in Big Bands, I'm not a great sight reader. The 'busy spots' usually go much too fast for me to sight read at the same tempo. So I largely rely on 'muscle memory' for the busy spots. On 'timing', my cues are probably 60-70% 'auditory memory' (based on rehearsals) and 30-40% sight reading.

So I (and others) make mistakes and gradually correct them over weeks and months of rehearsals under the direction (and coaching) of our MD.

I think I know what you mean by 'tunnel vision'. Good Point! Whenever I'm not prepared to rehearse a new piece, I just do my best to just sight-read note by note (or bar by bar). And then suddenly, I see a bar - and usually a couple of bars - which I'm totally unprepared for. And everything falls apart 🙁.

For the new pieces that I have prepared for (and marked), it seems like I have a 'double focus': on one the current couple of bars that I'm playing and one on 'what's coming up'. So that I can much better prepare to enter a 'busy/challenging spot'.

Is this the kind of thing you mean? I've never learn to 'read ahead' of what I'm playing other than described. Although, FWIW, my 'jazz improvisation workshop' leader (who's also my BB MD), challenged workshop members not to 'read the notes/chords' on repetitive numbers but simply to practice them and remember them.

 

[ghostler]

For the new pieces that I have prepared for (and marked), it seems like I have a 'double focus': on one the current couple of bars that I'm playing and one on 'what's coming up'. So that I can much better prepare to enter a 'busy/challenging spot'. Is this the kind of thing you mean? I've never learn to 'read ahead' of what I'm playing other than described.

It is counterintuitive to our normal way of thinking, it takes practise, but the mind is capable of amazing things.

Instead of simply focusing on the immediate measure one is playing, quickly glance ahead then back to that measure. It prepares you for what is coming up next. That glance is a couple measures ahead, but it can include even further.

I liken it to Karaoke

style words presented on YouTube, Vimeo, etc. Some present a very pretty phasing in and out starting when the words should be sung. It looks pretty to the eyes, but is very impractical.

The most effective Karaoke to sing with is presenting the words not when the phrase is being sung, but at least a second or two prior, so the mind is prepared ahead of time. Turn off the fading in and out, it is distracting, hinders reading. By presenting the words ahead of time makes singing easier.

To keep our sight reading skills honed and the bandmaster's leading skills honed, the music librarian would pull a few pieces of new music we'd rehearse a day or two, then replace with other new.

Sight reading performances excepting, we maybe had a couple rehearsals, then performance. Just from my reading, (I have never performed in an orchestra), similarly they do likewise.

Although, FWIW, my 'jazz improvisation workshop' leader (who's also my BB MD), challenged workshop members not to 'read the notes/chords' on repetitive numbers but simply to practice them and remember them.

Sounds like practical advice. Adapt to your particular environment of performance.

Sometimes I wonder

if I should have simply made being an active military musician instead of persuing a scientific degree and continuing as a reservist musician.

However at the time, they came up with a new requirement for promotion requiring a college education. They kept us busy enough as musicians with an irregular schedule, making attending classes, even night school impossible.

A few years later, they rescinded that requirement, but I had already entered an "alternate space-time continuum" in college. (Well, it wasn't that bad changing from a uniform to sandles, coloured T-shirt & short pants attending classes at the University of Hawaii and enjoying the balmy weather.)

Plus I got 4 days pay per 2 day weekend during reserve band practise and jobs, and a small retirement plus medical insurance at age 60. So things worked out. 😉

Attending a local big band gig we noticed the third number getting a little muddled. A drum solo broke out. After sixteen bars or so was heard, ONE, TWO, ONE TWO THREE FOUR...and the band kicked in as one.

Don't we all love it when a sharp, perceptive musician mate takes the initiative, jumps right in, and brings it all back together again without missing a beat? That is showmanship at its best.

 

[PiccoloPirate]

What's the use, of having a bucketful of cool mountain spring water, and not knowing how to drink.

Nice that the band, lets those with very limited skills, join in.
Easy solution to making them part of the band, as opposed to being like an audience member, sitting with the band.
Are the charts store bought?
Anyone in the band have comp/arranging skills?
Whole, Half, and a sprinkling of Quarter notes, might be useful.

To add to what Dr.G said, listen to recordings of all the tunes, over and over.
Dance with the Mrs.

 

[cappers]

What's the use, of having a bucketful of cool mountain spring water, and not knowing how to drink.

Nice that the band, lets those with very limited skills, join in.
Easy solution to making them part of the band, as opposed to being like an audience member, sitting with the band.
Are the charts store bought?
Anyone in the band have comp/arranging skills?
Whole, Half, and a sprinkling of Quarter notes, might be useful.

To add to what Dr.G said, listen to recordings of all the tunes, over and over.
Dance with the Mrs.

@PiccoloPirate
What's the use, of having a bucketful of cool mountain spring water, and not knowing how to drink.

Not quite sure what your opening statement means? Is it alluding to the fact that I am a novice with a folder full of music I can't play in a band beyond my abilities?

Re your observations and questions:

It is an amateur local community band and welcomes anyone from accomplished player to beginner, or rusty from not having played for a while. It does fairly regular gigs at a couple of local pubs (nice ones not boozers!) and community events. The repertoire is mostly jazz standards as in my post above.

It is led by an experienced pro jazz guitarist and musical director who does the arranging and some compositions, often with some of the other more experienced players.

I don't know where the tunes in the song book originate. Some are copies of printed sheets, others handwritten, some look like music software compositions. Three or for are the director's own compositions or interpretations. Most have been annotated at some time by the director.

The ethos is playing music and having fun doing so with others. There are no illusions of greatness, no ego issues that I've seen, and they are genuinely welcoming and helpful.

I'm not expecting them to teach me or help me improve but I think that being in this environment will actually help me improve, especially in music reading and timing.

Re your analogy, I'm very thirsty but I am learning to drink that cool mountain spring water.

 

[ESJohn]

no ego issues that I've seen

Those are probably hidden from you at this point. As you get to know the band members, you will probably notice that some are more driven than others. From my experience, that is a very good thing. You will also find yourself wanting to improve (in fact, I notice it now from your posts). The ones that simply want to play notes will be accommodated but you will be glad that others have enough ego to make themselves and the band as a whole sound better over time.

I'm not expecting them to teach me or help me improve but I think that being in this environment will actually help me improve, especially in music reading and timing.

They will help and teach you. The environment will definitely be beneficial to your abilities. I think you are in the right place.

 

[cappers]

Another band practice last night and it went quite well. I managed to accompany most of the tunes, tried to follow the melody and flow. When the notes were too hard to read or the pace was too fast I just played what I felt would fit (pentatonic scale in the correct key worked). Recognised some patterns and generally tootled along quietly. No adverse comments so I don't think I ruined any of the tunes! Better and more involved than last week anyway.

They are doing a gig on 1st June at a local pub and I was invited to join them with one more rehearsal before. Feel quite unsure about it but going to bite the bullet, what's the worst that can happen?! I'm not going to solo so that's one less pressure.

So much fun 🙂

PS One embarrassing moment was when my flimsy music stand from the charity shop decided to fold up on itself and collapsed sending my folder of music flying, just missing the other tenor's Yanagisawa 😱 I've just ordered a descent sturdy one on-line.

 

[ESJohn]

Great to hear of your continued enjoyment of the band!
We have a concert this afternoon at a Masonic retirement home. Since it's our Memorial Day weekend, we'll be playing patriotic tunes.
No solos in this one, but next month I may have a solo or be part of a soli within an arrangement of "Think" by Aretha Franklin. It all depends on how many of us show up. We're down two tenors due to one defecting to the clarinet and another recovering from surgery. Our maximum strength in the alto section is three, including one of our assistant directors.

 

[Dr G]

PS One embarrassing moment was when my flimsy music stand from the charity shop decided to fold up on itself and collapsed sending my folder of music flying, just missing the other tenor's Yanagisawa 😱 I've just ordered a descent sturdy one on-line.

Regarding lightweight music stands: Just put the music you are playing, rather than the entire folder, on the stand. That way there is less weight to make it collapse and fewer consequences (music scattered on the floor, damaged horns, etc.) when it tips.

 

[cappers]

Regarding lightweight music stands: Just put the music you are playing, rather than the entire folder, on the stand. That way there is less weight to make it collapse and fewer consequences (music scattered on the floor, damaged horns, etc.) when it tips.

Yes indeed! I put the individual song sheets on the stand after the collapse, don't know why I didn't in the first place

 

[PiccoloPirate]

Best to be very careful, in tight quarters, with other's instruments.
You might be paying for damages and replacements, and where I grew up, lotsa dental work.

Sturdy stands are a must.

 

[ghostler]

Best to be very careful, in tight quarters, with other's instruments. You might be paying for damages and replacements, and where I grew up, lotsa dental work. Sturdy stands are a must.

In 7th grade

cafeteria, where Mr. Suzuki, our band teacher conducted our rehearsals on the stage, Fred was practising his trumpet before classes started. I had a liquid dish soap bottle with 1 metre of twine knotted on both sides inside the bottle and string end threaded through its dispense nozzle.

Fred saw me while blowing a few notes on his trumpet. I said, "Hi!", then squeezed the bottle causing the string to shoot out at him.

He immediately got spooked and dropped his trumpet, denting the bell. (It was a school loaner instrument. Fortunately neither he or I had to pay for repairs.)

In consolation recognising immediately a result I had not anticipated, gave him the bottle during apology. He then used the bottle to prank other students.

Regarding dental work, for this reason neither my high school or the military service allowed us musicians to play our wind instruments while our transport bus was in motion. It was very easy to receive bodily injury during sudden stops, turns, hitting potholes, etc. Even a simple injury to one's lips could sideline a musician.

Those movie episodes of Duke Ellington's band playing on trains were carefully rehearsed on smooth portions of track on well sprung Pullman coaches with better maintained railroad tracks of that day.

But regarding close quarters and sturdy stands, I have seen those fall, too, especially playing outdoor in breezes. Risk assessment and awareness help, overall I've found band members to basically look out for each other. I carry extra music clips in case a member near me has not enough. (Band had a box of them in the rear, grabbing a few extra has paid dividends in a successful concert.)

Even have held a piece of music steady, so the instrumentalist could complete their solo when I was tacit.

Above all, at least show up at the rehearsal or concert totally sober. 😉

 

[skeller047]

Above all, at least show up at the rehearsal or concert totally sober.

Hmmm…. Excellent advice, but in my experience, most often honored in the breach…. I have in the past had many gigs where drinks were free, which usually guaranteed that the musicians showed up on time. Or early…

 

[ghostler]

Hmmm…. Excellent advice, but in my experience, most often honored in the breach…. I have in the past had many gigs where drinks were free, which usually guaranteed that the musicians showed up on time. Or early…

Back in the early 1970's, the Army had a policy. If a soldier was 18+ years old, they could enjoy an alcoholic beverage, but only on base. Off base in some states, legal drinking age was 21. One needed to be sober after leaving the base, else they could get cited for under age driving under the influence (or under the influence if of age).

Back then, they didn't have as many restrictions as they do now. We had a few in the band include senior enlisted who'd get their liquid lunch at the NCO Club (non-commissioned officers - sergeants).

One could tell if they had a few, our bass player came to stage band rehearsal after lunch a little red faced, tube bass amp was dialed a few clicks louder than normal. The enlisted stage band leader took it in stride.

Today in the kinder gentler Army, this would be a taboo.

But I know what you mean. I'm not a drinker, but in the 300 AB we had our share of drinkers. With the reserves supplying a duty driver and a bus made travel a bit easier. 35 - 40 years ago with most of the band being prior active service, musicians behaved adult like and it wasn't unusual to have a drink at restaurants (on musician's own nickel unless free) and hotel banquet rooms. Officers did the same. When in Rome, do as the Romans do.

Anyway back to being a new player in a band, always best to be on one's best behaviour with manners. As one becomes more accustom and accepted, they'll know the ropes, and do as the Romans (within reason.)

 

[MikeMorrell]

Another band practice last night and it went quite well. I managed to accompany most of the tunes, tried to follow the melody and flow. When the notes were too hard to read or the pace was too fast I just played what I felt would fit (pentatonic scale in the correct key worked). Recognised some patterns and generally tootled along quietly. No adverse comments so I don't think I ruined any of the tunes! Better and more involved than last week anyway.

They are doing a gig on 1st June at a local pub and I was invited to join them with one more rehearsal before. Feel quite unsure about it but going to bite the bullet, what's the worst that can happen?! I'm not going to solo so that's one less pressure.

So much fun 🙂

PS One embarrassing moment was when my flimsy music stand from the charity shop decided to fold up on itself and collapsed sending my folder of music flying, just missing the other tenor's Yanagisawa 😱 I've just ordered a descent sturdy one on-line.

I'm delighted that things are going well with the band, @cappers! You should IMHO take it as a complement that other band members feel you're 'ready' to join in with the 1st June gig. And you're right: what's the worst that can happen? The fact that you're able to fill in the 'tricky bits' with pentatonic notes in the correct says a lot about your musical ability!

In my current and previous (amateur) Big Bands, the advice to new players was/is always "just play along with what you can and skip (but try to read along with) the parts that you can't yet play. It's fine too if you only play along on the "easy numbers" and skip whole numbers that you don't yet know." It sounds as if your community band might have the same approach.

So no pressure, whenever you're able to play along (in tune), you "add" to the sound of the band. Our MD (who also runs the jazz improv. workshop I play in) always says "the audience notices 'sloppy timing' much more than an occasional 'wrong note' by different players. If the 'wrong note' sounds as if it might be in tune, the audience usually don't notice it at all.

Bottom line: band members are often much more critical of themselves (for 'mistakes') than the audience are.

FWIW, even after 25 years, there are still some 'challenging/fast' parts that - with my limited 'technical ability - I find difficult to play at speed. So I usually simplify (or just skip) them. I've found it worthwhile to analyse the (for me) 'tricky bits'. Fast, complicated runs sometimes lead up to 'key notes'. Repeating '(ascending/descending) runs often 'anchor points' for each run before the next run
(on different notes) repeats. So as long as I'm unable to play a whole 'challenging/fast' part, I just focus on the 'key note' (and timing) that a 'run' is leading towards. And in repeating runs, I focus on single notes (and timing) that - even I skip 3 of the 4 - keeps my 'timing' OK.

Sometimes I just get 'lost': I have no idea where we are. Especially after just playing a solo or after waiting 15 (or was it only 14) bars. In these cases I just wait silently until I (audibly) pick up where we are in relation to the sheet music. I then join back in again.

On the subject of music stands, my previous (new) one fell over a couple of times! Thankfully with no damage to other saxes, but with my music scattered across a wide area! It happens. Like you, I bought a sturdier one and I've had no problems since then. A related topic is the 'sturdiness' of your sax standard. I've experienced only once in 25 years a sax toppling of a sax standard and damaging the sax next to it. I can't remember what the cause was. The stand? Sax Placement? Anyway, since then, I've always made sure that a) my sax stand is rock solid and b) my sax is reasonably 'solid' on its stand.