Saxophones Case refurbishment

peedeeblues · Jul 27, 2022

Have much enjoyed this project. What about thin fiberglass cloth or chopped strand matting instead of cheese cloth? You could use resin or epoxy also.

PigSquealer · Jul 27, 2022

peedeeblues said:
Have much enjoyed this project. What about thin fiberglass cloth or chopped strand matting instead of cheese cloth? You could use resin or epoxy also.

Thank you I’m glad you’re enjoying the thread. I did consider fiberglass cloth with resin or epoxy. Expense being one issue. The second was the bulk of the fabric or spun glass is much thicker. Besides I have a roll of cheese cloth on hand and a gallon of glue .

PigSquealer · Jul 29, 2022

Between everything else going on I’ve been researching the hardware. Vintage hardware is not readily available. Hardware sources on upscale cigar boxes and jewelry boxes I don’t really care for. I’m planning on refurbishing the existing hardware. It’s not really damaged and functions proper. Cosmetically ugly though. The split rivets used to hold the goods in is available. Note that these are not trunk nails. They are split rivets used.

PigSquealer · Jul 29, 2022

I hate auto correct

Tenor Viol · Jul 29, 2022

PigSquealer said:
I hate auto correct

I use a Mac/iPhone and I'm of the opinion that Apple has made changes recently to how predictive text/auto-correct work as i've suddenly had a spate of the weirdest things which, as ever, I only notice after I've hit 'post'....

PigSquealer · Jul 29, 2022

Tenor Viol said:
I use a Mac/iPhone and I'm of the opinion that Apple has made changes recently to how predictive text/auto-correct work as i've suddenly had a spate of the weirdest things which, as ever, I only notice after I've hit 'post'....

All I use is Mac products. Yeah there was a couple of updates as last week. Now it’s like type, proofread, corrections, proofread, corrections, and then hit send. Proof read again… hit edit repeat.

jbtsax · Jul 30, 2022

I have had some success "refinishing" old hardware using the dremel attachment on the right. It produces a nice "brushed finish" that can then be given a patina, plated or given a coat of lacquer. I mask the surrounding areas if the hardware is still on the case so the case covering material is protected. The second photo shows the finish on a brass saxophone key. The third and fourth photo shows the "satin finish" after dipping in a patina chemical and "highlighted" using the 3M very fine pad.

mizmar · Jul 30, 2022

Fantastic!

(I'm tempted to ask which sound best. Luckily I'm not in a difficult mood)

PigSquealer · Jul 30, 2022

mizmar said:
Fantastic!

(I'm tempted to ask which sound best. Luckily I'm not in a difficult mood)

I would guess the highly polished one plays bright. The satin finish I’m guessing plays a little flat. Honestly my choice would be the antique satin finish. I like a smoky dark tone.

PigSquealer · Jul 30, 2022

jbtsax said:
I have had some success "refinishing" old hardware using the dremel attachment on the right. It produces a nice "brushed finish" that can then be given a patina, plated or given a coat of lacquer. I mask the surrounding areas if the hardware is still on the case so the case covering material is protected. The second photo shows the finish on a brass saxophone key. The third and fourth photo shows the "satin finish" after dipping in a patina chemical and "highlighted" using the 3M very fine pad.

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Thanks for the information and post John.
Not all of the hardware is solid brass. Going to plan P. (Piggy)

So for the moment I’ll let the case sit. Here’s what I did with the hardware.

A little tuneup on the hinges did well. I tightened the pivot some and flattened the area that followed the curvature on the top. When the hinge swings it’s still square and parallel. Otherwise it will bind when mounted on the case.

There wasn’t much of the plating left. I cleaned the parts on a fine steel wire wheel and then buffed.

The mounting brackets for the handle are solid brass. Cleaned in soapy water with some Scotch-Brite. Then on a buffing wheel polished with some fine compound.

The latch finger is solid brass. Used the combination of buffing wheel on the bench and a small buffing wheel on my Dremel. The catch locking mechanisms are plated. In good condition. I did this by mostly by hand. Moving the lock mechanism to one side. I used the cotton wheel on my Dremel and fine compound. Once finished I washed in a solvent. Before installation I’m going to need to grease / oil the inside mechanism.

PigSquealer · Jul 30, 2022

A nice improvement. The D rings I just wire wheeled and polished.

With everything clean it’s time to take care of the plating on the hinges.
The weapons of choice for the task.

I tested every brush in the picture to see what works best on the backside of hinge.
Heating the metal just before bluing. I brushed like crazy with this brass brush. Three applications. Then a fourth using a brass wheel on my Dremel. Metal transfer by fusing is not the norm. But for two parts like this heck yeah ! The brass wheels for my Dremel were $1.50 each. The job took two. Flea market tool vendor sourced.

I’m happy with the results including the color. Testing on the inside of the hinge gave me a chance to check the technique but also the color.
As you can see in the middle of the photograph there’s not much left of the brass wire wheel. ALWAYS WEAR EYE PROTECTION!!

stitch · Jul 31, 2022

PigSquealer said:
I tested every brush in the picture to see what works best on the backside…..

Ouch!

PigSquealer · Jul 31, 2022

stitch said:
Ouch!

Made a edit. Thanks 🙂

PigSquealer · Jul 31, 2022

@jbtsax can you brass plate a assembled hinge ? If so how ?

jbtsax · Jul 31, 2022

PigSquealer said:
@jbtsax can you brass plate a assembled hinge ? If so how ?

Wow. I am always impressed by your work. I should be taking lessons from you. 😉 I have no direct experience doing brass plating although I have a small bottle of brass plating solution in my shop. I suspect that whatever metal you want to brass plate will first require a layer of bright nickel. I would be happy to give it a try the next time I am in my shop and get back to you. I see you have already discovered "brass plating" by heating the part and using a brass wire wheel or brush.

PigSquealer · Jul 31, 2022

jbtsax said:
Wow. I am always impressed by your work. I should be taking lessons from you. 😉 I have no direct experience doing brass plating although I have a small bottle of brass plating solution in my shop. I suspect that whatever metal you want to brass plate will first require a layer of bright nickel. I would be happy to give it a try the next time I am in my shop and get back to you. I see you have already discovered "brass plating" by heating the part and using a brass wire wheel or brush.

Thank you for the kind words. You don’t want lessons from me. I play terrible. Just ask the dog :w00t:

Other than some basic plating knowledge I’ve never done any. This was my first go. I considered taking the hinge apart. The rolled part of the hinge has a tab that folds over to close the end. I decided not to take a chance of breaking it off. These little buggers are extremely hard metal. The chance of ruining the rolled end and breaking the tab off were high. On refitting I would need to solder /epoxy the pin on one end.

PigSquealer · Jul 31, 2022

For mounting all the hardware I needed new split rivets. These are going to be a different size than the originals. The size of the head and shank I can match. It’s the length that needs to be different. Measuring the thickness of the wood. Add a little for the cheese cloth and two layers of the vinyl. Lastly the thickness of the component it is going through. Scribble notes. Size 1 qty25 #2 qty10 Pay attention to the shank size. The solid area between the head and where the split begins. That’s also an option when ordering. Too short and you’ll lose stability where the hardware is actually mounted. Too long and you won’t get good anchoring.

My specially fastener store was out of stock I needed. I ended up ordering them directly from the manufacturer. The only drawback is the minimum. As in a minimum of 200 pieces. I ended up buying one bag of 200. A little over $15 and $6 shipping. Size 1/8 x 1/2.

1/8 x 8/16 !! :confused:

Should I return them? I ordered 1/2 :rofl:

For those wondering why I did not just choose a nut & bolt as fasteners. Here’s your answers. I’ll have more pictures on this subject later on during the installation. The original is the black one and replacement to the right. When ordering be attentive to the head shape. That’s an option also.

Next up I’ll be working on the layout for the covering and testing some glues.

PigSquealer · Aug 3, 2022

Spent a week testing adhesives. Glad I did. The Weldwood failed miserably. Didn’t stick to the wood or the vinyl fabric all. Best was Hi tack 76 but has 0 workability.

I also tried PVC pipe cement. Another epic failure I have a picture just can’t find it at the moment.
Tested each adhesive front & back to each other. Then to a clean wood sample.

Colin the Bear · Aug 3, 2022

I've been having some success bonding mixed materials using gorilla glue.

TobyB · Aug 3, 2022

3M Spray 90 has long been the favored chemical for cars- which is a pretty difficult environment
with heat, abrasion, etc. Might be worth a try. I also use their 'emblem adhesive' for a lot of
instrument related things, as it is 'rubberier'.
(I have a lot more auto restoration experience than instrument restoration experience!)

One of the big problems I have with repairing latches is the springs. They're almost always
some odd, contorted shape, and buried deep inside...

You're inspiring me to, at the very least, get a few cases working well, at least.

t