Beginner impro Can't read music Where can i find note names to

[aldevis]

Should be fourths and thirds, of course. Because a fourth + a third would be a seventh (septave?) which is what an octave should be called. Unless you just do everything by semitones, so a perfect fifth would be a seventh, and a perfect fourth would be a fifth and an octave would be a 12th. Ain't going to happen though.

You still leave the first out... no unisons then.

 

[zannad]

Wonder when he'll be back to acknowledge some of the suggestions?

LOL...our suggestions were kind of wasted really - the guy wanted a magic wand!! I bet that sax was a Christmas gift (unwanted?) - soon to be found on E..y or other 2nd hand shops for peanuts...

 

[MLoosemore]

... soon to be found on E..y or other 2nd hand shops for peanuts...

It just so happens I have some peanuts left over from Christmas.... 🙂

 

[BigMartin]

You still leave the first out... no unisons then.

Unison = zero(th)

 

[BigMartin]

But NINE MINUS a third, gives you a sixth (its inversion), NINE MINUS a fourth = a fifth, NINE MINUS a 7th= a 2nd

Major becomes minor, augmented becomes diminished....

Somehow it works

But it works better if you subtract one from all the numbers. Then the sums and the differences are both correct.

A "Seventh" (ie an octave) minus a "second" (ie a third) = a "fifth" (ie a sixth).
In the standard system, you have to bring nine into it, which looks rather arbitrary.

I know we can't change it now, but it would have been more convenient if it had evolved the way I'm proposing.

 

[Tenor Viol]

And the circle of fifths becoming a circle of fourths when you reverse.. I guess we don't need to comment on a fifth plus a third not being an octave -ooops, I just have.

What gets me the most is that a first = unison, no change... This should be a nullth.

But no matter how crotchety we get, we're stuck with it. Cos the maths don't work in any way over more than simple intervals.

Blame the mathematicians - Pythagorus, Helmholtz and a host more....

It's the old conundrum I used to have as an assembler programmer - do you start counting from 0 or from 1? By counting from zero (in the days when space was really tight) you had 256 option within hex 'FF', whereas you only had 255 starting from 1.

Intervals count the starting note as '1' hence the issue you describe.

 

[MellowD]

Just in case Bill actually comes back and reads this far ....

I found that the fear of learning to read the music was so much less scary once I realised the notes only go A to G and then start A to G all over again - the rest of the alphabet doesn't get a look in. How scary can 7 letters instead of 26 be?

Look at what it is about reading music that is making you feel resistant to learning, and then look to what is the truth behind that aspect of music. Then it all becomes so much more pleasurable and opens up a wide old landscape of interpretation that you can play with.

Mel

 

[jbtsax]

If Bill Smith (if that's his real name) didn't have a fear of learning to read music at the beginning of this thread, he certainly does now. I have a degree in music and now even I am confused.

 

[kevgermany]

I found that the fear of learning to read the music was so much less scary once I realised the notes only go A to G and then start A to G all over again - the rest of the alphabet doesn't get a look in. How scary can 7 letters instead of 26 be?

Much more fun in German. AHCDEFG, and a sharp/flat is shown by adding a suffix - e.g. C# is Cis, Cb is Ces. Until you get to B... Bb is B, B is H and B# is His. I kid you not. And just to spice it up more the sequence BbB is BH - German for bra.

 

[zannad]

This must be one of the weirdest threads I've ever come across...
The guy was just too lazy to learn his sax - that single message has LAZYNESS written all over it - yet, this thread has now been overfed with all sorts of suggestions and some interesting points about music theory which in my opinion should be reinstated in another thread...

 

[BigMartin]

Weird threads are fun.

 

[sushidushi]

Weird threads are fun.

They are.

For what it's worth, I hate the American terminology full note, half note, etc. It just don't make any sense at all to me. Not that it really matters a hoot what words are used.

I doubt that we'll see Bill again, but I wondered from the beginning whether he owns a saxophone at all.

 

[sushidushi]

BH - German for bra.

In Dutch, too - bustehouder, usually abbreviated to BH or beha.

 

[saxmaster]

How do people read music in the UK?
I'm from US and I didn't have any trouble learning music but I didnt have to teach myself. I'm getting the idea that it's maybe harder to read rythyms over there?

 

[aldevis]

How do people read music in the UK?
I'm from US and I didn't have any trouble learning music but I didnt have to teach myself. I'm getting the idea that it's maybe harder to read rythyms over there?

Rhythm are easy to read here. Swinging them is another matter.
I like weird threads too, BTW

 

[Tenor Viol]

The reference is to note names (longa, breve, semi-breve, minim, crotchet, quaver etc). We went down a side road or two on English (which is sort of modified cross between Italian and French) note length names; the contrast with American system (whole, half, quarter, and I'm sorry, but it has to be eighth, 'eight' drives me nuts); note pitch names of A-G vs various German and other options; mensuration and how to handle triple time signatures.

Apart from that it was fairly straightforward....

By way of explanation, my interest is in early music (pre 1750), I play tenor and bass viol (popular from late 1400s to about 1770). I'm used to playing pieces with time signatures such as 4/2, 6/2, 3/1 and I have occasionally encountered the old tempus perfectum time signatures and I had to play from a fascimile edition in black notation with ligatures. For an added twist one piece used baritone clef (that's an F2 clef).

I agree most people won't encounter such oddities, even in a lifetime of music

 

[sushidushi]

I don't suppose it's much different, except that in England, we refer to semibreves, minims, crotchets and quavers, etc, rather than whole, half, quarter notes and so on. My children use American terms (we're in exile in Canada) but I can't get away from thinking that a whole note means a crotchet (quarter note).

 

[kevgermany]

Germans also use the quarter/eighth note naming system, but in German. But a quarter note is still a crotchet to me.

As for clef's, take a look at all the varieteis, especially the movable K clef and it's names in different positions..... And the Germans add a few names depending on the instrument it's written for (e.g. viola clef).

I don't ever want to play from black or white notation. I'll stck to the sax and the treble clef. Bass I remember vaguely from piano lessons in the 60s. And that's the way it should stay.

 

[Tenor Viol]

You did mean C clef - I know one of the symbols used for the C clef looks a bit like a K? (I quite like the old "ladder" symbol - bit like an "H" but with two cross pieces - one either side of the line which is the C.)

I've had to learn all 4 standard clefs (bass, tenor, alto, treble) for the instruments I play. I'm still not very fluent in the tenor clef though.

 

[Colin the Bear]

Just to balance the thread. The only time I go near dots is when I can't hear it and need to work it out or if something is in an awkward key or has key changes.

Music theory and mathematics don't add up. Perhaps the physics of acoustics and maths go together.

I hate to think when I'm playing. I just blow the thing.

I was surprised that I understood all the previous posts although I think some were tongue in cheek.

If anyone wants to play by ear alone I would say the recorder is a good starting point.

Folk music and simple tunes first. The saxophone is too fickle to start out on.