Teaching An exercise to help improve your "time"

[Targa]

I could have gone to my grave without knowing that. How ever can I thank you? By the way did you know John Phillip Sousa invented the "be-bop" scale?

Wasn't difficult, it's only got two notes and played by emergency vehicles.

 

[brianr]

By the way did you know John Phillip Sousa invented the "be-bop" scale?

LOL.......

He may well have added an extra note, but Im pretty certain he didnt call the result a Be Bop scale.

Didnt he die before Be Bop was even thought of?

 

[Alice]

Tsk! 'Dissing' my beloved Bebop.

 

[nigeld]

I could have gone to my grave without knowing that. How ever can I thank you? By the way did you know John Phillip Sousa invented the "be-bop" scale?

Wasn't difficult, it's only got two notes and played by emergency vehicles.

I think you may be confusing Charlie Parker with Charlie Fairhead.

 

[Jazzaferri]

Da.a.a da Da.a.a. da Da da Da da Dah

 

[kevgermany]

I find the problem with using words to subdivide beats is that I don't tend to say those words in normal speech with equal-length syllables. Blueberry, for instance has a long "Blue-" and a very short "-ry". So I have to modify my speech to make it work, but then what's the point?

The trick is to pick a word that matches the musical rhythm. In orchestra the cellos were struggling with a tricky rhythm. One of the violins called out Schildkröte - the German for tortoise. It got a good laugh, but it stuck and works.

 

[BigMartin]

The trick is to pick a word that matches the musical rhythm. In orchestra the cellos were struggling with a tricky rhythm. One of the violins called out Schildkröte - the German for tortoise. It got a good laugh, but it stuck and works.

It still seems circular to me. If it's for myself, I can't tell if the word matches the rhythm unless I can already hear the rhythm, in which case I don't need it. And if it's to communicate it to someone else, I don't know if they're going to say the word the same way I do. If it works for others, fine. But I've never found it helpful in 50 years of doing music, on and off.

 

[jbtsax]

It is just one of many teaching tools. If one is not a good fit, then the teacher goes on to another, or another. The standard system of counting/learning rhythms and note values works as well. The one I like to use is:

• 1 2 3 4 quarter notes (crotchets)
  
• 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & eighth notes (quavers)
  
• 1 e & a 2 e & a 3 e & a 4 e & a sixteenth notes (semi quavers)
  
• 1 la li 2 la li 3 la li 4 la li (pronounced lee) triplets
  
• 1 ta la ta lit ta 2 ta la ta li ta 3 ta la ta li ta 4 ta la ta li ta sextuplets

 

[Jeanette]

I've been taught:

1 2 3 4
1 & 2 & 3 & 4 &
1 b c 2 b c 3 b c 4 b c
1e & a 2 e & a 3 e & a 4 e & a
1 cy clo pe de ia 2 cy clo pe de ia etc
1 a bou ta wa ter bot tle

As part of a warm up exercise I am supposed to do 🙂

Jx

 

[kevgermany]

It still seems circular to me. If it's for myself, I can't tell if the word matches the rhythm unless I can already hear the rhythm, in which case I don't need it. And if it's to communicate it to someone else, I don't know if they're going to say the word the same way I do. If it works for others, fine. But I've never found it helpful in 50 years of doing music, on and off.

Funny thing was, it helped me as well. Cos I have a semi-quaver rest at the end of the cello phrase, the 'te'.

 

[jbtsax]

For an eighth (quaver) followed by two sixteenths (semi quavers) we use the children's song:

one lit-tle two lit-tle three lit-tle In-di-ans

 

[BigMartin]

For an eighth (quaver) followed by two sixteenths (semi quavers) we use the children's song:

one lit-tle two lit-tle three lit-tle In-di-ans

Ah, now using a song I can understand (political considerations aside), since they already know the rhythm.

 

[Targa]

Ah, now using a song I can understand (political considerations aside), since they already know the rhythm.

Yes, must be PC, one lit-tle two lit-tle three lit-tle first nat-ions, would work as well.

 

[Jeanette]

Please can we keep this thread on topic 🙂

Jx

 

[jbtsax]

Yes, must be PC, one lit-tle two lit-tle three lit-tle first nat-ions, would work as well.

"Native Americans" not so much. To be politically correct, I now refer to my dog as a "Canine American".

 

[6182]

i’m in my 4th year and 3rd month of sax playing, and i’ve recently started focusing more on timing when playing with backing tracks, because it’s one of my weaker areas. For me practing with a metronome and practicing with a backing track are two separate skills when it comes to keeping time.

[BGCOLOR=transparent]I have one sax lesson a week, which i’ve kept up since i started learning 4 yrs ago. My teacher won’t let me tap my foot, so i rely on counting in my head, as well as relying in the beat in the backing track (drummer, left hand piano, bass player etc.. whichever i want to focus on).[/BGCOLOR]

At this stage, i don’t intend to take up foot tapping, regardless of the pro’s and con’s. i’ve been taught similar stuff mentioned above example say butterfly for triplets etc.. In terms of electronic metronome use, i’ve been taught to use it like the old fashioned piano metronomes ie tic toc and ignore all the other flashy settings.

Just like to say, i’ve found all the comments above, very useful..

Another problem i have to be careful with is, when i play a swing jazz tune, and then i move to a latin tune, i sometimes forget and play the latin tune in swing mode.

 

[Wade Cornell]

All above good and excellent exercises. Just as a different cultural point of view: In West African drumming traditions a person who wishes to be a drummer must first be a dancer. Rhythm is considered to be an innate bodily form of music...felt rather than intellectualized. Only after one is a good dancer can one study with a drumming master.

Whatever works is fair, yet we can all respond bodily and "feel" when the rhythm is right. Might be a good idea to take a page from the Africans (source of great rhythms/syncopation etc.) and start with the body before progressing to the head. An excellent American Jazz/gospel sax player Stan Strickland (Berklee Teacher) tends to start all his classes with body rhythmic exercises...just another approach.

 

[kevgermany]

Another problem i have to be careful with is, when i play a swing jazz tune, and then i move to a latin tune, i sometimes forget and play the latin tune in swing mode.

This comes from reading, not internalising or owning the tune. There's so much more than just the written words in the comments above that Wade and Colin made. But if you listen and work actively, you'll see huge progress. The key is having to tune in your head as you want others to hear it. Then playing it as you hear it.

 

[6182]

Thanks wade and Kevgermany.
At present my main interests are playing lots of different western music sheets with their backing tracks.

[BGCOLOR=transparent]I can’t go down the road of playing every piece from memory (as my memory isn’t that great). i’ve learn’t ‘fly me to the moon’ from memory and it does give me more artistic freedom with a backing track, and like everyone says, it’s one of the best ways to own a tune.[/BGCOLOR]

I don’t foot tap. In terms of playing from music sheets, some tunes i do sway along to (up and down , or sideways), some sheets like scheherazade movement 3 - the fast measures, i couldn’t sway to, as i’d lose my place on the music sheet whilst playing. Depends more on the piece.

The other problem when playing sheet music, you have to know your audiences expectations, if they want to hear ‘Fur Elis’ in the way Bethoven intended it to be played one has to tread carefully. I find it’s best to be honest first and forewarn listeners as to how you are going to play something, or express your playing limitations ...

 

[spike]

Good exercise to improve timing is to go for a walk.
Oh No! not another of Spike's off the wall ideas ;-)
(It helps if you have a dog then you must do it 2 or 3 times a day in all weathers.)
Most of us walk with a constant rhythmical tempo - left, right, left, right - 1, 2, 3, 4, and so on . . .
So if we divide our steps into whole, half and quarter notes/beats - it's quite easy to get into the rhythm.
4 steps equals a whole note, 2 steps equals a half note and one step equals a quarter note.
Once you've got that sussed it's easy to get to the triplets and other subdivisions.
Obviously 3/4, 5/4 and 6/8 etc. and whatever else will take a little more time.
But if you concentrate on every step of your walk whether it's a da-di-di, or di-di or a di-dah.
Doesn't matter - it can be diddly, diddly, doh, oh man ey my dog crapped in the neighbour's garden.
Or . . . Hickery dickery dock the mouse ran up the clock.
Bottom line - Good exercise to improve timing is to go for a walk.