Backing Tracks Aebersold playalongs

[Jay]

Yes @kevgermany, the mark of a good teacher: 'my student hasn't understood this - how can I explain it more clearly'.

 

[jbtsax]

I was a trainer and had to take my super tech knowledge and make it understandable to novices. Not easy, but necessary. You're really good at explaining repair stuff, so you should be able to step back and see Aebersold the same way.

The point with the scale was him using the name of a chord, when the scale already has a well established name. This adds confusion, not clarity.

I know exactly what you are saying about making something understandable. Not all learners learn the same way, so a teacher needs at least 3 or 4 different ways of explaining ideas and concepts. However, I fail to see the difficulty in calling the scale that fits the V7 (dominant 7th chord) the dominant 7th scale. To me that is more clear and makes more sense than calling it the myxolidian mode. 🙂 But as I said we are both coming at this from very different backgrounds. 😵

 

[Jay]

So - a bit of experimenting on the piano. A 7th chord wants to resolve to the major tonic chord 5 notes below, ie G7 wants to resolve to C, A7 to D and so on.

So you call G7 the dominant 7 for the key of C major? Dominant 7ths are V7 I see from jbtsax, so that fits.

And if you're improvising over C, you'd want plenty of Cs, Es and Gs in your tune, and when it moves to G7, you want plenty of Gs, Bs, Ds and Fs? Is that how it works?

So a common chord progression for C is C, F, G7? I, IV, V7

It works. I just played a simple tune I know with those chords in the left hand and it works. Previously I would only have known what chords to play if I had the dots.

Lol, those of you who know this stuff have no idea what a revelation this is to me 😛

Slowly, slowly......

 

[Colin the Bear]

It's a nice feeling when it starts to come together.

 

[Nick Wyver]

But let's look critically at Aebersold's Blues in All Keys.

It's not remotely a book for beginners. Nothing But Blues is rather better.
I rather like Aebersold (the first ones I bought came with lps) but, for beginners, I always start now with Creative Saxophone Improvising.

 

[Jay]

Tried Maiden Voyage - Bb blues. Nah, couldn't hear it, once past the tune, either playing the sax or the piano.

Put the chords into iRealPro. Perfect, I played some tuneful noodling. Well, yanno, for a rank beginner who knows nothing.

Obviously the fact that the chord you're on lights up is a help, but in fact, I don't need that, I can hear the chord changes. Dunno why I can't with Aebersold but I can't.

I like the look of the Creative Saxophone books @Nick Wyver, thank you, I hadn't seen those and I think I'm going to treat myself.

 

[Jonesy]

I can...Mixolydian = mixed up.....huge headscratch !!

I thought it was what killed all the rabbits.😉

I've been trying to get into all these scales and stuff. I don't think my brain is wired for it.

 

[Tenor Viol]

Jay - I think you need some core theory around degrees of the scale, triads and so on. The degrees are numbered from 1 to 7 starting on the tonic, which for C major is C, D major is D etc.

The basic chords are assigned Roman numerals I to vii, I being tonic etc.

The three most important triads are the tonic, I, dominant, V, and sub-dominant IV.

Might be worth buying Eric Taylor AB Music Guide (ABRSM) vols I and II, about £6 each.

 

[BigMartin]

Tried Maiden Voyage - Bb blues. Nah, couldn't hear it, once past the tune, either playing the sax or the piano.

Put the chords into iRealPro. Perfect, I played some tuneful noodling. Well, yanno, for a rank beginner who knows nothing.

The bass on that track is quite busy in places. Try playing (or preferably singing) the chord roots along with the track for a while.

 

[Jay]

I really do need some more theory. But also in a 'how to use it' sort of way.

I know how an internal combustion engine works, but I struggle to fix my car. I know the theory of series and parallel circuits but adding a ceiling light to my house takes a lot of thinking about.

And in the same way, I know a bit of music theory (though I need much more of the basics here too) but in the same way as above, I don't know how it applies to improvising a tune.

Are there such books as 'practical music theory?'

 

[Colin the Bear]

Learning theory to improvise is like painting by numbers. You get a nice picture but no masterpiece.

Theory will help explain why a thing sounds good and where to look for gold.

You imagination is where improvisation comes from.

A good starting place is to deconstruct the harmony of a tune. Find and learn all the notes in all the chords from bottom to top on the saxophone for the arrangement of the piece you're looking at. When you're at the point when you can play them at sight, join them up in an interesting way with grace notes, passing notes, little phrases etc.

It may take a long time to find who you are as far as improvising goes. It can be quite disappointing to find you don't like who you are. You may be someone else tomorrow. It can be a very rewarding journey but be aware that you will never be where you want to be, because your goals will move ahead of you as you progress. Don't forget to enjoy the ride.

 

[Jay]

@tenorviol, why do some chords have 'capital' numerals, ie V, IV, and some have small ones ie ii, vii?

Theory will help explain why a thing sounds good and where to look for gold

@Colin the Bear, I'm very much at the not-knowing-this stage still.

 

[Sue]

@tenorviol, why do some chords have 'capital' numerals, ie V, IV, and some have small ones ie ii, vii?


@Colin the Bear, I'm very much at the not-knowing-this stage still.

Jay those with capitals are major and those with smaller are minor

 

[Jay]

Jay those with capitals are major and those with smaller are minor

Thanks Sue

 

[Jay]

I've found this: The Jazz Resource - Basic Music Theory which looks good. And it's got 'Jazz Theory' once you've got 'Basic'.

Reading it at the piano. Now I know about the the main types of 7th chord - didn't realise there were three, so was getting confused (easily done!) I loved learning all this stuff.

I can see no housework getting done today either 😉

 

[Sunray]

I really do need some more theory. But also in a 'how to use it' sort of way.

I know how an internal combustion engine works, but I struggle to fix my car. I know the theory of series and parallel circuits but adding a ceiling light to my house takes a lot of thinking about.

And in the same way, I know a bit of music theory (though I need much more of the basics here too) but in the same way as above, I don't know how it applies to improvising a tune.

Are there such books as 'practical music theory?'

This book may be ...

http://www.amazon.com/Practical-Theory-Complete-Spiral-Bound-Book/dp/0882842250

Another ...

http://www.practicalmusictheorybook.com/

 

[Chris]

@Jay Try HERE Yes it's our very own @Pete Thomas Lots of information about jazz improvisation. Btw the most important 3 chords in Jazz are the ii V I Every jazz tune you can find will have a combinations of these chords in different keys.

Chris...

 

[kevgermany]

It's not remotely a book for beginners.

I agree. But the noddy level intro makes you think it is.

 

[kevgermany]

I can see no housework getting done today either 😉

Terrible. I'll just have to do it myself. 😡

 

[Jeanette]

Terrible. I'll just have to do it myself. 😡

Is there something you haven't told us 😱

Jx