Playing the saxophone Are you or were you self taught?

I see we’re moving the goalposts from private lessons to what it takes to design a university curriculum! I’m sure all of the jazz greats who we know also taught others did so with an outlined lesson plan

Anyway, I wanted to remark on this idea of “good teacher”, and especially as pertains to private lessons which is indeed an entirely different world to university lecturing.
1) you started it 😉

2) maybe but maybe not...I know tons of folks who had lessons from some bigname player and the player had no pre-lessons convo with them at all...they literally just were winging each lesson

3) there is most definitely a commonality between private teaching and university lecturing, IMHO. In both instances the challenge/art/discipline is being able to communicate your intent/material successfully...

Reminds me of the time I was on the PTA board of my daughter's elementary school. One meeting one of the parents was not there...someone asked "where's Jeff ?"

Principal replied "oh, he couldn't make it tonight he had a work obligation"

Someone else asked "what does he do ?"

Simultaneously...myself and another parent answered...

I said "I think he's a science teacher"

While she said "he's a Physics Professor at the university"

To which everyone laughed and Principal replied

"same thing..."
 
3) there is most definitely a commonality between private teaching and university lecturing, IMHO. In both instances the challenge/art/discipline is being able to communicate your intent/material successfully...
The big difference is whether you’re lecturing a prepared presentation of information for a roomful of people at once or sitting in a one-on-one conversation where you can follow the student’s lead and respond accordingly. In the first instance, you need to figure out what will work with most people ahead of time. In the second instance you can merely remain present and yes, “wing it” (or improvise). These are totally different activities, about as different as performing a solo recital is from jamming with a friend.
 
The big difference is whether you’re lecturing a prepared presentation of information for a roomful of people at once or sitting in a one-on-one conversation where you can follow the student’s lead and respond accordingly. In the first instance, you need to figure out what will work with most people ahead of time. In the second instance you can merely remain present and yes, “wing it” (or improvise). These are totally different activities, about as different as performing a solo recital is from jamming with a friend.
A good professor is also effective one-on-one - popularly known as "office hours". A successful student is often one who takes advantage of having deep conversations with their professor about challenging material.
 
The big difference is whether you’re lecturing a prepared presentation of information for a roomful of people at once or sitting in a one-on-one conversation where you can follow the student’s lead and respond accordingly. In the first instance, you need to figure out what will work with most people ahead of time. In the second instance you can merely remain present and yes, “wing it” (or improvise). These are totally different activities, about as different as performing a solo recital is from jamming with a friend.
OK, but in the one on one, some people can effectively communicate and be able to use different styles, analogies, etc. to help the student "get it", and some can't. Like almost all human activity, it's a skill that has to be learned and practiced, requiring some kind of underlying talent as well. We don't just drop out of the womb able to teach.
 
OK, but in the one on one, some people can effectively communicate and be able to use different styles, analogies, etc. to help the student "get it", and some can't. Like almost all human activity, it's a skill that has to be learned and practiced, requiring some kind of underlying talent as well. We don't just drop out of the womb able to teach.
Agreed, that is where tge separation occurs between a good teacher and a not-so-good one...both may have the same amount of knowledge to communicate, but its tge communication ability aspect which separates them
 
OK, but in the one on one, some people can effectively communicate and be able to use different styles, analogies, etc. to help the student "get it", and some can't. Like almost all human activity, it's a skill that has to be learned and practiced, requiring some kind of underlying talent as well. We don't just drop out of the womb able to teach.
We don’t drop out of the womb able to speak let alone use analogies. But somehow by a certain age, most people can do these things to varying degrees. Maybe the talent to speak is not so rare.

We’re talking about crossover skills that most people are using in their daily lives anyway. Skills which can then be applied to a different task. Many more people are already good communicators than are good clarinet players. The analogy for teaching is more like letter-writing, if you’ve never done it before. You have the main part of the skill (writing) already. How much practice would it take to be a good letter writer? Some people may be more talented at it than others, sure. Some people may elevate it to an artform even. But nearly every person who already knows how to write can learn letter-writing if they want to.

As a piano teacher, I often had adult students who start off with the Big Regret of not having had piano lessons as a kid. The idea is that it’s so much easier for kids to learn. As a teacher of little kids as well, I have to remind adults that they’re starting out with a lot of skills that children don’t have. You have some amount of finger control and dexterity from typing for a decade, for example. That’s not a small part of teaching little kids! But it’s pretty normal to take the skills you already have for granted.

Which was the whole point of the excerpt I quoted: how we take our skills for granted. Rather than saying “anyone can teach” I should have said “anyone who wants to can teach.” Can teach another person what they know. Not talking about design a university curriculum or lecture to a full auditorium.

I truly believe teaching another person to be a normal application of yourself and your humanity, like being in any relationship. People start off worse at relationships and get better at that too— we don’t just drop out of the womb knowing how to do them either!
 
With regard to the OP, I've always opted for lessons, although that's a complicated story in some respects. I personally prefer the interaction with a teacher and most of the ones I've had have been good. I've had only a few duds, and those have been the ones wanting to maximise their income (that's another story for a different thread).

Long post....

I have been able to read music (bass and treble clef) since I was about 10/11. In later years I have had to get to grips with alto and tenor clefs as well.

As a youngster when visiting my gran, she showed me basics of playing the piano. I didn't own a piano until I was in my early forties and that's when I had a few lessons. I couldn't really afford to continue with lessons then (he was expensive) so had to park them.

In my thirties, for a complex set of reasons I won't bore you with, I started singing lessons: I had never sung after the archetypal not-being selected for the school choir at the age of 11. Sure, most people can 'sing' to some extent, but to do it properly requires some technique other than not strain the voice. Weekly lessons carried on until I moved to Shropshire just before I was 40. I resumed lessons locally last year after a 25+ year gap.

Some years later (be about 2004) I bought my bass viol. Tutors for the viol are few and far between, so I started off learning from a tutor book. To get some lessons, I started signing up to weekend courses etc. That is a VERY expensive way of learning and I could only do that once, maybe twice a year. I went to an early music summer school which included tuition, but that was also very expensive. Eventually, I did find a tutor near Chester. By then, I was also playing tenor viol. There are a lot of technical issues with playing the viol and progress is going to be slow if you don't have someone with that technical knowledge to hand.

Before I had viol lessons near Chester, I'd had lessons with one of the few music teachers I didn't like.

Some years later, I did try to learn to play the lute. I rented an instrument from a luthier and had lessons. That was a VERY expensive experience. I was aware of how to read English/French lute tablature since you encounter it when playing "lyra way" on the viol. The standard 6 course renaissance lute has the same tuning as a tenor viol in G (G C F A D G) A combination of factors, including the cost, put me off taking it further.

The biggie was my early fifties... In 2011 I bit two bullets. The first was buying a shiny alto sax. Never having played a wind instrument, I started lessons with the tech at the shop where I bought it. I immediately got on with it. Unfortunately, the shop closed after a couple of years and he moved on a bit after that to take up contracts playing on cruise ships. It took me a long time to find another teacher. I did sign-up for a set of small groups lessons with Bob at Curly, but distance made that impractical on a regular basis. I had regular local lessons, which got me to grade 6 until I moved in 2023.

Back in 2011... I bought my first cello. I had played a bit at school but had only had one year's worth of lessons with the peripatetic teacher. It took a long time to find a teacher that was both local and affordable. I had a few lessons with a teacher, who was cellist with one of the northern orchestras. He was fine, but it was an awkward drive in the evening after work and he was also expensive. There was a gap and I found another teacher through the local choir. I had lessons with them for a few years. The breakthrough was a much younger teacher who was the conductor of the local orchestra. I made a lot of progress with him. Covid messed stuff up and I obviously lost him when I moved 150 miles.

The instrument which I mostly failed to find a teacher to get on with was the electric bass guitar. That kicked off several times, each time strugglign to gain traction. The first three teachers were just weird. The first I never had a lesson with as every time he cancelled. After the third cancellation, I gave up. The second one was bizarre. He had some sort of recording studio set up and ran parallel lessons in three rooms simultaneously. That was just a joke. The third attempt was amusing. He'd taken retirement from his job and had done some training as a guitar teacher. I was a shock to him. I understood music theory much better than he did and he had the honesty to say that he didn't feel up to teaching me...

There was a gap... I then went left field and out of my comfort zone and signed up to the local "Rock Skool" set-up. The bass tutor there was young (mid-twenties) music grad. That worked. He liked having me as a pupil as he didn't get many who could already read music and a technical understanding of music. We got on very well. Unfortunately Covid blew everything up. Everything stopped for a long time. He got a full-time head of music post, got married, now has two daughters. He took on the Rock Skool franchise nearer to home and I lost him as a teacher, which was disappointing as we'd got on well.

I then moved to Cumbria.

Up here, I have struggled to find teachers that don't involve substantial 50 mile journeys. I have a sporadic singing teacher, but no cello, bass, or sax teacher.

I started organ lessons after I moved here. I found details of a teacher through the Royal College of Organists and he's only 7 miles away. That's been progressing.

Because I'm probably moderately insane, I've started to learn to play a brass instrument for the first time. I started with group lessons with a training band, but now have private lessons with brass specialist (professional orchestral trumpet player).

At the moment I sing with two choirs, I play cello in an orchestra, I conduct a brass band, I play sax or euphonium in a community group, I play euphonium in a training band. I have been asked if I will conduct a new brass ensemble being set-up locally, which will be a paid role....

Personally, I prefer to work with a teacher, but that's me.
 
For that matter (and a new thread just started up with it):

Who can define the actual objective standard of measure that puts Big Mama Thornton on one side, and Elvis Presley, on the other side, of "Rock and roll" vs. "not rock and roll"?

Most of the early rockers who were African American came out of swing bands and jump bands, what most here would probably try to shove into the "jazz" box; what EXACTLY was the point at which someone like Chuck Berry climbed out of the "jazz" box or the "blues" box and into the "rock and roll" box?

Then we look at this newly minted artificial distinction between "Rock and roll" and "rock". I mean, I get it, King Crimson sounds very different from Jackie Brenston and Ike Turner playing Rocket 88; but you can absolutely find a direct line from one to the other. Pretty much all the British Invasion bands and the psychedlic guys started out with things like skiffle, or rockabilly, or as in the case of the Grateful Dead, folk music and bluegrass.

Then we have things like the Great Swing Dance Scare of the early 200s, with what look like rock and roll rhythm sections behind a big band blowing on a wide variety of music from In the Mood to The Ghost of Stephen Foster to I Wanna Be Sedated to San Antonio Rose.

Take the blues, jazz, and country music and mash them all together, wiht a dose of English boys' choir and a dash of Morris dancing, and that's "rock" or "rock and roll" or whatever vocabulary word you want to describe it this week.
I don't care if it's Rock, R&B, Blues, or Rock & Roll. When great song writers and musicians more or less vanished with Rock & Roll. "Tutti Frutti" is Richard Penniman aka "Little Richard" song. No matter what the think about guys like Little Richard .... he was more "Rock & Roll" than Pat Boone. Tenniman ?????
View: https://youtu.be/F68Z0sVVa7s?si=LHvi6Mb_N2NiUsyP
 
I don't care if it's Rock, R&B, Blues, or Rock & Roll. When great song writers and musicians more or less vanished with Rock & Roll. "Tutti Frutti" is Richard Penniman aka "Little Richard" song. No matter what the think about guys like Little Richard .... he was more "Rock & Roll" than Pat Boone. Tenniman ?????
View: https://youtu.be/F68Z0sVVa7s?si=LHvi6Mb_N2NiUsyP
Little Richard makes Pat Boone sound like he’s on a Saga cruise ship.
 
Do you think Pat Boone had any idea what the song's about? The lyrics Richard didn't sing on the recording are about - how shall I say this - "adventures in the rough trade".

You have to think Pat and Richard were at least acquainted; do you think Pat ever said "So, Richard, what the heck is this song actually ABOUT anyway?" and do you think Richard told him, or decided to be nice and not upset Pat?
 
Pat Boone was in show business a long time. Show people are acquainted with all sorts of people with all sorts of tastes. His public persona was carefully cultivated, because he knew which side his bread was buttered on. Who put the butter there remains a mystery.

I never played behind Pat Boone, so I have no personal experience with him. Little Richard was a complete joy on and off stage. Since they recorded together, I think it’s a safe assumption that PB knew what was what.
 
So many ways to enjoy the journey. I had a big head start on my peers in elementary school. Dad picked up a used Selmer Signet clarinet from his friend at work for $30. Had some private lessons in the 3rd grade.

School band didn’t start until the 4th grade so that was a huge help.

Took some lessons in 7th grade from a UW music student. Super nice young fellow and a real Bird fan so our lessons came from the Charlie Parker Omnibook.

Since then it has been pretty much self study. I’ve been meaning to take some lessons from one of the local guys that has that Lenny Pickett altissimo fluency but haven’t gotten around to committing to it just yet.
 

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