Tech/maintenance YBS-52 "Branch Assembly?"

[jtd]

Hi Guru's. I had a YBS-52 come to me from a local that had been carried around in a "gig bag". Of course it got jacked up and I have discovered that the whole upper neck "tubes" were twisted in opposite directions with the upper neck tube dented/twisted. No big creases though.
My question is - is this something that can be twisted/bent put back at least reasonably close? The dent, of course, I believe is right where it twisted.
I know that this is confusing because the Yamaha diagram doesn't show individual names of those "tubes" .
The picture is the twisted upper. The tube it connects to is good enough. I was able to align it.
I'm not sure that annealing is something I want to do, so I thought I'd ask for opinions/suggestions. Thanks Jeff

 

[PigSquealer]

Name of part ? pigtail bow ??
Look into buying a new part from Yamaha.
Yes this can be repaired. The “feel” of the metal will determine if heat is necessary. Usually none it needed.

 

[jtd]

Thanks once again PigSquealer. On their website diagram they only show the whole assembly - which is $700.00. I did order a couple of other parts that had disappeared in this mess.
I don't need the whole thing. Maybe I will call them.
I'm glad to hear that regular run-of-the-mill dent methods could work. In this particular case it doesn't have to look perfect- only play well enough for the young-uns. Not enough money in this neck of the woods, or so I've been told.😎
Thanks again.

 

[PigSquealer]

Thanks once again PigSquealer. On their website diagram they only show the whole assembly - which is $700.00. I did order a couple of other parts that had disappeared in this mess.
I don't need the whole thing. Maybe I will call them.
I'm glad to hear that regular run-of-the-mill dent methods could work. In this particular case it doesn't have to look perfect- only play well enough for the young-uns. Not enough money in this neck of the woods, or so I've been told.😎
Thanks again.

Yikes 😬 $700 is a bit much. I would give them a call. Next option would be the Texas Horn Trader.
If you get stuck or run out of options. Send it to me. I’ll help to school out. $700 should go to a proper case.

 

[Stephen Howard]

Looks pretty standard for a mangled pigtail.
It won't need to be annealed - but it may be necessary to remove the octave key pip and the water key saddle.
There are various methods for removing the dents but the key point about pigtail repairs is to keep checking the alignment on the instrument as you go.
One of the biggest mistakes is to refit the bow under tension just so it lines up with the braces/supports rather than getting it to the stage where it naturally sits on the bracing points..

It would be nice to get all the dents out but it isn't completely necessary; chances are it'll pick up a few more in due course.

 

[jtd]

Yikes 😬 $700 is a bit much. I would give them a call. Next option would be the Texas Horn Trader.
If you get stuck or run out of options. Send it to me. I’ll help to school out. $700 should go to a proper case.

Thanks. I have looked at Texas Horn and nope. I appreciate the offer, but I'm not sure I completely believe the no money part from the school. I am going to try the straightening out way first. Slowly😎

 

[jtd]

Looks pretty standard for a mangled pigtail.
It won't need to be annealed - but it may be necessary to remove the octave key pip and the water key saddle.
There are various methods for removing the dents but the key point about pigtail repairs is to keep checking the alignment on the instrument as you go.
One of the biggest mistakes is to refit the bow under tension just so it lines up with the braces/supports rather than getting it to the stage where it naturally sits on the bracing points..

It would be nice to get all the dents out but it isn't completely necessary; chances are it'll pick up a few more in due course.

Thanks Stephen. I figured those had to come off. I am going to heed your advice about tension. It is a very good point. Will take it a step at a time.

 

[PigSquealer]

I am going to try the straightening out way first. Slowly😎

As the dent comes out the twist should fix itself a good amount. Yes, I too would remove the area parts soldered on.

 

[jtd]

All right. well thanks PigSquealer and Stephen for your ideas. Gave me encouragement to go ahead. Here are a couple pics. I hope that the keys all fit 😎 . The braces are in the right spots. Thanks again.

 

[PigSquealer]

Good job ! Final key fitting will not be all that difficult. If the 10mm pads are not reusable and you don’t have any. Use a bit of neck cork. The pads are 4.5mm thick. Neck cork may need two layers and sanding to proper thickness.

 

[jtd]

Thanks PigSquealer , but I was referring to the keys actually fitting/positioning like they're supposed to😱 The whole upper assembly was/is bent every which way. I'm glad brass bends easily LOL. Just have to wait for the octave mechanism parts that were missing to get delivered. I'm still not sure how key parts got so bent that they got lost. Forgot to mention that the body brace screw attachment post was flopping in the breeze. Surprised it wasn't lost.
Your advice and pointers are well taken as usual. Thanks again. If/when I get it playing I'll post.

 

[PigSquealer]

Thanks PigSquealer , but I was referring to the keys actually fitting/positioning like they're supposed to😱 The whole upper assembly was/is bent every which way. I'm glad brass bends easily LOL. Just have to wait for the octave mechanism parts that were missing to get delivered. I'm still not sure how key parts got so bent that they got lost. Forgot to mention that the body brace screw attachment post was flopping in the breeze. Surprised it wasn't lost.
Your advice and pointers are well taken as usual. Thanks again. If/when I get it playing I'll post.

Well understood.
What’s most impressive about your attacking the task…is asking questions first. Gathering information and giving it a go by best means on hand. We techs are usually asked questions after things have gone way south. Your first pictures showed a skill point reached and an intelligent time to ask a question. True craftsman know when to ask questions beyond past experience.
Heat or not ?
There are no stupid questions among fellow craftsmen…Or DIY people willing to learn.
On an open forum it’s difficult to guide mechanical / craft tasks. Not everyone understands a simple screw slots needs.
In your event, do notice neither Stephen or I suggested methods or tools. Removal of soldered attachments yes. I made one observation of how I thought the metal would move. Dunno if that was realized or not ?
Still you took the information and ran with it. Well to a respectable degree so far.

Forward working information.
From the hinge to cup the key arms are malleable brass / nickel on most Yamahas. The manufacturing process is not an exact precision fit. Best I know they built in a final hand fit allowance. This was engineered in for the assembler technician.

As a point of reference. Look at Conn 6M or 10m bell key arms. They come off body to bell. Some appear as straight. Others will have an “S” or “Z” bend. The soldering on of bell distance had a working “range”. Upon final assembly the technician adjusted (bent) the key arms as needed.
Pictured below is a 10m

 

[jtd]

Thanks. Yours and Stephen's observations and suggestions were very much listened to and followed. And spot on I might add. Even though the dents are still there, the major twist was mostly resolved by getting medieval on the big dents. I'm surprised and consider myself blessed that it has worked so far. Thanks again. I'm supposed to get the missing parts from Yamaha on Thursday. Then I'll see if I can get the whole octave mechanism to work😳

 

[jtd]

Well, as much as I am a trombone player, I was able to get a good sound down and up on this thing. It isn't pretty, but I think it will be fine. I'm a function over form dude anywho. Only an experienced player can say if the ergo's are OK. massive thanks to you guys. Once again helped me immeasurably.

 

[Stephen Howard]

Now that you've got it back together all all up and running, pop a tiny drop of low strength threadlock on each of the three brace screws. It's perhaps a bit 'belt and braces' but I see a great many of these horns where the screws have vibrated loose.

 

[jtd]

Very good idea. I will. Thanks Stephen. As well as a 3d printed "J" for the brace pearl spot 😎

 

[PigSquealer]

Be proud of your work. Ya done very well !
Now back to the original problem. The $4000 Bari in an $20 gig bag. Let’s see how that gets fixed😵‍💫

 

[jtd]

Unfortunately I have no control over that. Only time will tell if the teacher says something to them. As long as kids/parents aren't taught about ---- oh, never mind. wrong place for this 😎 😎 😎 .
thanks. It was fun. I still can't believe it worked. Not sure why I'm blessed so much.
And also for you guys on this site.

 

[PigSquealer]

Unfortunately I have no control over that. Only time will tell if the teacher says something to them. As long as kids/parents aren't taught about ---- oh, never mind. wrong place for this 😎 😎 😎

Well you can participate. Write a note stating reason for damage. The amount of “free”($85/hr) time you invested. Next time may not be repairable. Include a copy of the $700 parts list. Recommend a case(s) with information & links.
Next time charge for your services or decline the work.