Misc Reviews Yamaha YDS-150 Wind Synth

[mystrymew]

Hi all! Recently got a Yamaha YDS-150 for myself and I've been having a blast with it, but I joined the forum to see if anyone had any advice on midi mapping it. Regardless of whether I use Ableton, Cubase, or Pro Tools, I can't manage to get virtual instruments sounding natural in terms of velocity. The breath sensor outputs to midi control 11 and I can map that onto, say, volume. It gives me the full range of breath input for that. No matter what I do, however, velocity only outputs either 0 or 127, nothing in between. I would love to be able to record more natural midi without having to adjust velocity in post. Any thoughts would definitely be appreciated!

 

[6441]

The breath sensor outputs to midi control 11 and I can map that onto, say, volume.

That's what I do in Logic. It's sounds ok to me? Volume changes follow the breath, that seems ok?

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uieqDTQ2D24

 

[h4yn0nnym0u5e]

That's what I do in Logic. It's sounds ok to me? Volume changes follow the breath, that seems ok?

Yes, but velocity can be used to affect the attack of the note, so it’d be good if it had some relationship to the breath level at note start. No idea if it’s possible to put in some MIDI processing to delay the Note On message until a breath level has been received, and then use that level as the on velocity...

 

[6441]

That's above my pay grade, I'm not that into midi. My main use of it is to create notation.

 

[Yansalis]

Can a control be mapped to more than one uh, MIDI thing?

Also, I see Vadda prefers the No. 1 design for the neck accessory--which one is closest to an alto or curvy? Also does anyone have an idea for how to get a sop-sized MP onto the neck? Grind out a cheap one? Design one for 3D printing?

 

[mystrymew]

Yes, but velocity can be used to affect the attack of the note, so it’d be good if it had some relationship to the breath level at note start. No idea if it’s possible to put in some MIDI processing to delay the Note On message until a breath level has been received, and then use that level as the on velocity...

Exactly. Being able to control the volume with the breath sensor is definitely better than nothing, but every note having 100% attack can be tiring depending on the sample. It also completely restricts me from playing anything fast; the envelope can't catch up with quick licks, even with a raised baseline.

I feel like there is a way to do some sort of MIDI delay like that, maybe through Max or something, but I think the problem is actually more so that the YDS itself is only outputting maximum velocity for me. Even if the receiving end was delayed, it would still only pick up 127 or 0, nothing in between. If I could get the YDS to reliably send the full range of velocity outputs, I would totally jump on figuring out how to set up a delayed processing like that.

Can a control be mapped to more than one uh, MIDI thing?

Also, I see Vadda prefers the No. 1 design for the neck accessory--which one is closest to an alto or curvy? Also does anyone have an idea for how to get a sop-sized MP onto the neck? Grind out a cheap one? Design one for 3D printing?

In a way, yes! Most software has a version of this, but in Ableton there's a midi effect called Expression Control that can map velocity, modwheel, pitchbend, aftertouch, or keytrack to any other variable. Like for this example, I've added it to a bassoon sample and mapped velocity onto volume.

Now the bassoon's volume envelope will be controlled by the velocity output of the controller. You can even rase the baseline or ceiling to round out a sound. Say everytime you played a Db chord in a recording you hit the keyboard way harder than intended. Instead of going into the piano roll and lowering the velocity of every single Db chord, you can go into this midi effect and lower the ceiling to whatever's more desirable and it'll make sure everything that was above that threshold is lowered.

This is also how I've been visualizing the YDS' midi output. I was hoping the solution would be somewhere in the use of this effect, but it only showed me that the YDS was only outputting max velocity (the "Output" colum will show you what inputs the software's receiving in real time as a sliding scale, filling up like a progress bar. Pitchbend's at 50% right now, for example, and you lower or raise pitch by going to 0 or 100 respectively. The YDS only ever shows max velocity when it's in use.)


I've sent an email to Yamaha asking if there were any specifics about the midi output or anything like that. Not SUPER hopeful on the response, but we'll see!

 

[6441]

I've sent an email to Yamaha asking if there were any specifics about the midi output or anything like that. Not SUPER hopeful on the response, but we'll see!

I hope you also asked if they could please remove the mandatory vibrato?

About MIDI messages from the YDS, the sensor is very basic. My guess would be that the MIDI sent as expression probably represents their best choice for the hardware.

 

[mystrymew]

The more I learn about the YDS the more I'm starting to appreciate how unique it is from EWIs and Aerophones, even the WX5. It really does seem to have a lot of different intent as a standalone tool. I heard back from Yamaha and was surprised with a really in-depth phone call, so props to their customer support and outreach and everything! There's still going to be a bit of waiting for specific information as my specific question had to be forwarded on, but in the interim, I was able to get a glimpse of a midi implementation chart. Here's a quick summary for anyone that's curious:

The YDS-150 cannot receive midi signals from other instruments, unsurprisingly. Midi information is sent on channel 1 and that’s the only channel available. It uses OMNI OFF, POLY mode which just means, again, it only sends one channel. POLY mode is interesting, though. Note range is 0-127 with no true voice aka the transposition of notes on the outer limits. Interestingly enough, the entire range of velocity IS sent as well as notes’ off velocity. That means it's not like I was assuming. NOTE ON isn't "9nh, v=127" or "9nh, v=1-127 -> 127." After touch isn’t sent, pitch bend is (along with modulation on CC#1, portamento on either CC#5 or 65, expression on CC#11, and binary information on some other channels). Program Change isn’t sent meaning voices aren’t sent. The YDS sends onboard voices through Aux/Phone, though, so that makes sense. Nothing from Common, System Real-Time, and Aux Messages are sent; that's things like click track, real-time intonation, timestamps, etc. It says System Exclusive messages are sent and received without a note, so I'm guessing there's nothing special there.

It's nice to know that the full range of velocity IS sent. I'll have to play around some more with how the YDS interacts with Ableton.

As a separate matter, though, I'm starting to wonder if there's a possibility of creating a custom mouthpiece that can interact with the pitch bend joystick. It's pretty easy to get into the back of the YDS, apparently, if you Allen wrench off the left-hand upper stack of keys and the right-hand lower stack then take the screws off the rest of the plate. Maybe something like a flex sensor or an fsr could be wired into the signal then hidden in a homemade mouthpiece. No idea where you'd keep the Arduino, though...

 

[Cimarron]

The answer to this question may already be around but I haven’t found it. There is a post about wireless guitar receiver and transmitter but this is what I’m looking at. YDS-150 to guitar wireless rec/trans to looper effect pedal to amplifier. (Yamaha THR5 amp)
Phones out on YDS-150 with cable to guitar wireless transmitter . I’ve tried the guitar receiver to effect pedal then out to amp via 1/4 cable to 1/8 plugged into Aux on amp ... nothing. I would have thought the 1/4 from the effect pedal would work to the 1/4 in on the amp but no not even a direct line from the YDS-150 to amp 1/4 in. Any suggestions? I’m planning on going back to guitar center with every thing and see what they think. Their interested as they have not seen one
Yes the direct line YDS-150 to aux amp works

 

[bigjohnoliver]

I am new to the YDS 150 ,i receive it yesterday ,my question is : how can i connect the YDS to my ipad pro with the micro USB B cable to play with an app like garageband .It's functioning with bluetooth ,but not very good and with a big latence .Are there specific connections to buy to make it function properly .Thanks

 

[6441]

I’ve tried the guitar receiver to effect pedal then out to amp via 1/4 cable to 1/8 plugged into Aux on amp ... nothing.

I'm not sure I understand. Do you have a guitar? Does that work with transmitter->receiver->pedal->amp?
Does the YDS->Pedal->amp work? Usually the output of the pedal is 1/4", not 1/8".

how can i connect the YDS to my ipad pro with the micro USB B cable to play with an app like garageband

I think you need some kind of adapter for the iPad in order to connect audio to it via USB. A camera adapter, I belueve it's called.

 

[shamba504424]

Hello,I would to like get an adaptor printed like the one that you have for yours Randulo but have no idea how to go about it,there is a place a few miles from me but forgive my ignorance how do I go about getting the info to be able to send to them,never had any dealings with 3D stuff so am a bit of a dummy where its concerned

 

[6441]

Hello,I would to like get an adaptor printed like the one that you have for yours Randulo but have no idea how to go about it,there is a place a few miles from me but forgive my ignorance how do I go about getting the info to be able to send to them,never had any dealings with 3D stuff so am a bit of a dummy where its concerned

Hello there! There's a plan to download, thanks to @Vadda, and here is the file, which is buried in the long sequence of comments:

Yamaha YDS 150 Neck angle adapter by vadda

Having found the YDS150 grip uncomfortable, I designed these adapters, with different angles, to be able to adapt the sax in the best way.After several attempts I have found that I am happy with the n ° 1 as the others are too relieving their thumb from the weight on the octave key.The o'ring...

www.thingiverse.com

 

[shamba504424]

Thanks for that,so I just download that and send as an attachment in an email to the printer?

 

[6441]

Thanks for that,so I just download that and send as an attachment in an email to the printer?

Ask them at the shop, but that's probably what they'll tell you to do.

 

[shamba504424]

Again thank you,appreciate your help 🙂

 

[Cimarron]

The answer to this question may already be around but I haven’t found it. There is a post about wireless guitar receiver and transmitter but this is what I’m looking at. YDS-150 to guitar wireless rec/trans to looper effect pedal to amplifier. (Yamaha THR5 amp)
Phones out on YDS-150 with cable to guitar wireless transmitter . I’ve tried the guitar receiver to effect pedal then out to amp via 1/4 cable to 1/8 plugged into Aux on amp ... nothing. I would have thought the 1/4 from the effect pedal would work to the 1/4 in on the amp but no not even a direct line from the YDS-150 to amp 1/4 in. Any suggestions? I’m planning on going back to guitar center with every thing and see what they think. Their interested as they have not seen one
Yes the direct line YDS-150 to aux amp works

Problem solved it was simply a bad adapter in the chain

 

[Cimarron]

Here’s another issue. I’ve used a battery pack that the power would cut off when you wait a moment after playing. Yamaha Repair doesn’t know about it after talking on the phone just now. Guitar center says It’s over powering the instrument therefore shuts off
Yds label “Battery 6V or 4.8v. 5V
Battery pack=output 5vdc. 2.4A max
Any recommendations as to what to get? Runs from instrument usb to pack with a 3 foot cable

 

[shamba504424]

Enquired with SYOS about an adaptor for the YDS150 and they quote 60 euros including shipping to UK,bit too pricey for me

 

[Päng]

Hi gang,
a question about the bell, when you opened it up, is it possible to remove it? I would really like to know if it functions without the bell? This would make the size slightly better.