Saxophones Yamaha soprano or?

[Trigger]

I still have one and the A8 80 excellent saxophone

 

[Alphorn]

But is circumspect intonation due to poor build/knowledge, or a compromise a little for a better sonority with the by-product being a bit pitchy in places. For me, I can fix pitchy easily

Your info tells me you are a pro player, so you have put in all the time needed for any quirky issues that may occur with saxes. Would I be in your shoes the YSS-82R would have been a great option. Alas, I am only a scientist and amateur musician. I have to economize on the time I spend with my instruments. It matters where's your starting point.

 

[Honkin Ron Howe]

If you can find a Yamaha YSS-62 then go for it. See Stephen Howard's review on the YSS-62 and the YSS-475. I've had a Yanagisawa S901 soprano for 20 years and I've never been happy with it ... the intonation is appalling and it's a dull sounding horn which is only balanced out by a Lawton Bronze 9BB mouthpiece. If I had my way I would return to Yamaha (475) ... best value for money in the market. Before that I had an Earlham soprano which played with good intonation but it was cheap and cheerful. What Yani do well are curved soprano's. The Mauriat Le Bravo might be worth looking at as well. But, I'm a Yamaha 62 player - a purple logo YTS-62 bought brand new in 1981 and, a 1991 YTS-32 which sounds as good. SH Woodwinds - Soprano & Sopranino saxophone reviews

 

[Dr G]

If you can find a Yamaha YSS-62 then go for it. See Stephen Howard's review on the YSS-62 and the YSS-475. I've had a Yanagisawa S901 soprano for 20 years and I've never been happy with it ... the intonation is appalling and it's a dull sounding horn which is only balanced out by a Lawton Bronze 9BB mouthpiece. If I had my way I would return to Yamaha (475) ...

Wow. Yanagisawa sops are pretty much best known for their good intonation tendencies. If you have had the horn for 20 years and never been happy with it, I don't understand why you would keep it. Similarly, I have never played a Yanagisawa in good fettle that I would call dull. Your issues indicate to me that you have a horn full of leaks, and that your mouthpiece is a poor match for the horn.

Yes, Yanagisawa curvy sops are among the top sops on the market. I've had two SC-992 sops that were both wonderful instruments in every regard. I played them in modern big bands and classical quartet.

 

[Pete Effamy]

Your info tells me you are a pro player, so you have put in all the time needed for any quirky issues that may occur with saxes. Would I be in your shoes the YSS-82R would have been a great option. Alas, I am only a scientist and amateur musician. I have to economize on the time I spend with my instruments. It matters where's your starting point.

I hear you. My standpoint is this: you can overcome intonation but tonal qualities can be harder to affect.

 

[Honkin Ron Howe]

Wow. Yanagisawa sops are pretty much best known for their good intonation tendencies. If you have had the horn for 20 years and never been happy with it, I don't understand why you would keep it. Similarly, I have never played a Yanagisawa in good fettle that I would call dull. Your issues indicate to me that you have a horn full of leaks, and that your mouthpiece is a poor match for the horn.

Yes, Yanagisawa curvy sops are among the top sops on the market. I've had two SC-992 sops that were both wonderful instruments in every regard. I played them in modern big bands and classical quartet.

The S901's in good working order, leak free with a reasonable action but, the S901 is not the same as the later models and I have handled plenty of sopranos. The 901 is hard work and you can't push it. Hence dull. I have collected plenty of mouthpieces for soprano over 50 years … including: Yani, Otto Link, Selmer and Lawton 9 Ebonites. I’m currently using a bespoke Bronze Lawton 8BB and a Brilhart.

Why do I keep it? I can no longer afford to replace the saxes I own now and I just lost interest in playing soprano with the 901. Oh, and my wife has said, "no more saxophones!" Don't get me wrong, I've played some great Yani's including a 902 Bronze Tenor but, I would happily swap the S901 soprano for a Yamaha YSS-62 or a 475 any time.

Did I mention, I've backed off the gigging and recording scene now and I play loud! I often turn up at open mics and play without a mic. The 901 works ok if restrained but not when pushed. Yani also do not account for small hands, or short fingers like mine by the way ... and I play baritones as well!

 

[turf3]

I really like my Buescher soprano, although I play my modern soprano more. I wouldn't say my modern curved soprano has either a nasal sound or overblown keywork. Certainly not oboe-like in tone.

The keywork on the Buescher (it's a straight True Tone) is absolutely tiny, and made for a player with very small hands. I have long fingers, and the palm keys are so low I cannot possibly reach them without moving my entire hand inwards, which feels very unnatural. For my 45 years of playing I have become very much accustomed to keeping my finger tips at rest over the touch pieces. This isn't possible for me with the Buescher when trying to play palm key notes, so although the tone is delicious and the intonation good, it doesn't get played that often. By contrast, my modern soprano feels very natural to play.

The same applies to a lesser extent with my Buescher True Tone alto. Beautiful tone, awkward ergonomics. Saxes have got much better to play over the years, at least for players with big hands. On alto I tend to play my Yanagisawa or battered, student Yamaha.

As I noted above (or at least I should have), almost everyone will want to put risers on the palm keys and side keys of these old Bueschers. As well as pretty much any other old soprano. That just comes with the territory of playing older saxophones.

 

[LostCircuits]

It's the ever recurring discussion, new Japanese or Vintage American/French/German? There is no good answer to it, in my personal book, the preference is always vintage, especially Martin, Conn, Buescher, Holton.

Holtons can be found relatively inexpensive still, a lot of buyers limit their horizon to Buescher and Conn, which are fantastic but by now are getting expensive in the Craislist et all aftermarket.

Kings are all over with their intonation, so they are not something I'd recommend. Martins have the sweetest tone of all sopranos that I have played (more than a dozen, easily) but they are rare.

The Selmer Serie II and III I've played were not anywhere near their monetary value.

Interestingly, the PMauriat are very, very good sopranos, so there is another option to consider.

And of course, I love my miniature Borgani!

The most important part of sopranos is the correct setup, which goes way beyond leak free seating, and key height regulation.

When I got the Borgani, the intonation was "wild" to the point where the owner had it returned from two buyers as "unplayable". The pads were ok but not great, they had very deep seats and just doing a complete repad brought the horn back to where it is more than acceptable. Same thing with my saxello, seats change the pitch of individual notes. And of course, any other soprano with maybe the exception of RTH Conns.

In other words, condition of the instrument is paramount when talking about good or bad or slotted or out of tune.

One advice I like to give everybody looking for a soprano: Detachable necks/multiple necks are cute and allow for a bit more flexibility in tone (straight vs. curved) and posture. But, especially on sopranos, they are a source for constant grief because of the tenon / receiver wear. And adjusting/fitting a soprano tenon is something many shops are not set up for.

That's pretty much all I can say, I am toggling between the Buescher, the Saxello and the Borg depending on venue. And every time I switch, I have to re-learn the ergos and micro intonation issues that are particular to each horn.

Here is a little clip of the Buescher I uploaded yesterday as part of the BOTM here - fresh after a 3 month hiatus (oral surgery) so it's not perfect but it'll give you an idea.

Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

 

[Alphorn]

Your recording confirms that it is all about personal preferences and that you need to play the respective horn in question. While it really is well played and sounds great it showcases a sound concept completely different to mine. The Buescher sounds like a shrunken tenor to me while I associate a clearer and more focussed sound with soprano.

Advice to the intial question. Decide which instruments are of interest to you and test them before buying. When going used this might be difficult but if new is an option, there are shops out there with return policies. When I was testing sopranos, I had at one point several sopranos in the basement with a net worth of 10 k€ since there is no shop with a decent soprano selection in my area. It's not nice for the shops if instruments are returned but is part of their business.

 

[jonf]

As I noted above (or at least I should have), almost everyone will want to put risers on the palm keys and side keys of these old Bueschers. As well as pretty much any other old soprano. That just comes with the territory of playing older saxophones.

I've put on the tallest risers that I can find, and the keys are still too low. Now I have more time on my hands (I have recently retired) I may try fabricating some of my own.

 

[Ivan]

I've put on the tallest risers that I can find, and the keys are still too low. Now I have more time on my hands (I have recently retired) I may try fabricating some of my own.

Sugru is your friend

 

[jonf]

Sugru is your friend

That's what I used for the risers on my Buescher True Tone Alto. On the soprano, the keys are so tiny I think I might need something a little more rigid. Maybe a combination of brass risers and Sugru.

 

[LostCircuits]

That's what I used for the risers on my Buescher True Tone Alto. On the soprano, the keys are so tiny I think I might need something a little more rigid. Maybe a combination of brass risers and Sugru.

Mhhh.... I have regular-size hands and I've never understood this problem, if anything, the palm keys get in my way if I am not careful. Instead of risers, I rotate the neck by a few degrees - just a little bit usually suffices until the keywork lines up with my hands to play comfortably. I don't mean to question you, rather, it's meant to be a general question. On the soprano, I rotate the MPC for the same effect, it literally raises or lowers the palm keys depending on which way I go.

IOW, I am just curious if anybody has tried that. I see players on a regular basis who make sure the bell lines up in a straight trajectory with the neck and then they do all kinds of weird wrist contortions to compensate. or else have the MPC dangle off-axis so that they can play. Again, I am just curious, no criticism.

And yes, I know folks with pan-size hands and get it when they have issues.

 

[h4yn0nnym0u5e]

3D print plus Sugru? It is possible to print (barely) functional keys, though to be fair these didn’t need cups and pads:

These are for lowering rather than rising, but very useful to get an idea of what might be possible when properly fabricated.

 

[jonf]

Mhhh.... I have regular-size hands and I've never understood this problem, if anything, the palm keys get in my way if I am not careful. Instead of risers, I rotate the neck by a few degrees - just a little bit usually suffices until the keywork lines up with my hands to play comfortably. I don't mean to question you, rather, it's meant to be a general question. On the soprano, I rotate the MPC for the same effect, it literally raises or lowers the palm keys depending on which way I go.

IOW, I am just curious if anybody has tried that. I see players on a regular basis who make sure the bell lines up in a straight trajectory with the neck and then they do all kinds of weird wrist contortions to compensate. or else have the MPC dangle off-axis so that they can play. Again, I am just curious, no criticism.

And yes, I know folks with pan-size hands and get it when they have issues.

The palm keys on a Buescher True Tone will certainly never get in your way, thay are tiny. I have fairly large, although not massive, hands, and the length of my fingers means that, with my fingers over the touch pieces, there is no way I can operate the palm keys. Rotating the mouth piece won't help, and it'll introduce another problem, of the main keys being out of line, which will create wrist discomfort due to being twisted off line.

A much better option. Play my modern curved soprano, which has keys designed for adult hands. Incidentally, it's not an expensive soprano, it's a Bauhaus Walstein, bought about a dozen years ago. It plays in tune, has a good tone and excellent ergonomics.

 

[jonf]

3D print plus Sugru?

Now that's a thought. My elder daughter's boyfriend has a 3d printer. Will give that some further thinking, thanks for the suggestion.

 

[LostCircuits]

The palm keys on a Buescher True Tone will certainly never get in your way, thay are tiny. I have fairly large, although not massive, hands, and the length of my fingers means that, with my fingers over the touch pieces, there is no way I can operate the palm keys. Rotating the mouth piece won't help, and it'll introduce another problem, of the main keys being out of line, which will create wrist discomfort due to being twisted off line.

A much better option. Play my modern curved soprano, which has keys designed for adult hands. Incidentally, it's not an expensive soprano, it's a Bauhaus Walstein, bought about a dozen years ago. It plays in tune, has a good tone and excellent ergonomics.

There is never one solution that works for everybody. I think we can all agree on that 🙂

 

[JazzFanAZ]

Welp, after all my searching, in the end I actually got… a Couf Superba 1. It hits the Mail to me on Monday. Superb(a) condition! Great price at < 1/2 what a YSS-62 would have run me (and I almost snagged one of those).

If these were good enough for Grover Washington I’m sure it will be good enough for me.

 

[Trigger]

The one on sax on the web ?
If so you’ll be very happy gbyrd is a good guy to deal with

 

[JazzFanAZ]

That’s the one!