Saxophones Yamaha 475 soprano vs Trevor James the Horn soprano, has anyone tried both please?

[Tonehole]

I would snap up this horn. You can likely get it for 1,000£, looks lightly used and worth far more and would give a 475 more than a run for it's money.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/157099797977?_skw=jupiter+soprano+saxophone&itmmeta=01KZSB2YT6ZE6B4SFSBD9P6Y42&hash=item2493e0add9:g:HjMAAOSwy2ZoSz8S&itmprp=enc%3AAQALAAAA4GfYFPkwiKCW4ZNSs2u11xDDnQQ%2BlieL7k4HH26wJAb7QSuK9G1jwGpAuFJh173i049o1ZVrDh73AUte118b2L3L5tAqDap7uKKGm%2FnIBggZnfC2gzWUIWuyrqOoL%2BjaYk3wsvZ1mL3TOZ%2FSadZBys456ylGEB6MFMHSzC8lK49GkRCiGCiyUk40sNQiYvXsfiZllEoiMf6G6bQuY3HOpvLZyuWrCt10tV%2FV9TxLFC5l7UaJyzowzQe2EslJ9xSgwMurAeY4%2BuA3o%2FIX5pz3fMIwRsQg7nHEsw2I78AlwD9Q%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR6Lti6v-Zw

 

[Stephen Howard]

I wonder if you came across one of the Vietnamese made horns or Taiwanese models. If the former, it's very likely to be the same sax as my Kessler. I haven't had many complaints in the 13 years I've used it. Lacquer still looks brand new. I'm also a fan of their keyboard layout. The non-stick G# mechanism is also a particularly nice addition. It's the best duel neck soprano for the price that I've come across. Not as easy of a blow as that 475, though. I don't know if Yamaha simply cracked the code with their bore design, or if that built in neck benefits the pitch due to the lack of a relatively large , for the pitch, tenon and receiver interfering with sonic nodes. In any event, Chateau knows how to make a decent soprano. My tech did note that they were a little lean with the pad adhesive, but considering that I was using the thing fairly frequently for over a decade before some upper stack pads needed to be reseated (one was all out replaced), I think that the factory setup held up well to reasonable expectations.

I didn't have the opportunity to dive too deeply into it - it was bought for a tour and my remit was a checkover and setup.
However, the standout feature was that the toneholes had been dressed after the finish had been applied. I check a few with my standards and the results put them in the same league as Selmer and Yanagisawa. For £1200.
That's bang for bucks.
Point screws were either pseudo or vaguelly parallel, but had tip engagement with the key barrels. Another nice feature.

I've seen a few Chateaus before (altos and tenors) and they've been up to the mark for the price. In fact I told the client that if I ever needed a budget sop for a job I'd very likely opt for one of them.

The only drawback for me was the detachable crook(s). I've always preferred single-piece sopranos because somehow they seem a bit more...centred.
And yeah, not as free-blowing as the Yamaha....but the thing I noticed most of all about it was that it had an almost alto-like presentation. Which is ideal for someone who doesn't like sopranos but needs one 🙂

 

[SuperAction80]

And yeah, not as free-blowing as the Yamaha....but the thing I noticed most of all about it was that it had an almost alto-like presentation. Which is ideal for someone who doesn't like sopranos but needs one 🙂

Certainly a great doubler horn, and worthy of mention along with the 475. I regard the Yamaha so highly, because it was the first soprano I ever picked up. The fact that I was able to play the thing with very little adjustment and in tune no less spoke volumes to how well designed it actually is. I've played a number of vintage and lesser made Chinese horns since, and yeah... you can make them do what you want, but you're going to be working for it. Chateau/Kessler cost about the same as a used Yamaha, give you a few more features for the price, and are pretty comparable to the 475.

Frankly, I'll never understand the duel neck thing. Your review of... I think the straight Buescher True Tone soprano brought up a great point that I never forgot. That's an awful lot of engineering to fit into a small space. Manufacturers are doing the darndest of things in order to get the neck tenon on Altos and Tenors to better align with the bores of those horns. Why wouldn't this be even more significant on Soprano? And, regarding duel necks, anyone who has both seem to consistently favor the curved design for the ergonomics. So, I'm just baffled as to why the 62R solid piece bent neck design didn't become the standard on most sopranos. Seems like it would also be easier to manufacture than adding a receiver and two necks with such tight tolerances. Was it Selmer or Yamaha who thought up this "innovation" first? In any event, most everyone else jumped onto the bandwagon. It still makes me scratch my head.

 

[Colin the Bear]

No joint, no leaks. It may explain the freeblowingness.

 

[dexdex]

Wasn't the removable neck on sopranos Yanagisawa's initiative ?
As they did it on the curvies, it was pretty natural to transfer that know-how onto straight horns.
The market said yes.
As far as I know, Yanagisawa is on waiting-lists for most of their horns.
Owning a curved Yanagisawa for 3 decades, I see the removable neck as a benefit. Packing, cleaning, and probably also maintenance.
Speaking of straight sopranos, less sure. I bought my 875 a year ago, and play it with the straight neck. Like a soprano, without strap. Sidney, Zoot, John or Jerome as visual role models.
Not getting any younger, the bent neck and strap posture might well make sense in a foreseeable future. The interchangeable neck gives you the option. Wayne or Branford can't be wrong...

 

[Stephen Howard]

Wasn't the removable neck on sopranos Yanagisawa's initiative ?
As they did it on the curvies, it was pretty natural to transfer that know-how onto straight horns.
The market said yes.
As far as I know, Yanagisawa is on waiting-lists for most of their horns.
Owning a curved Yanagisawa for 3 decades, I see the removable neck as a benefit. Packing, cleaning, and probably also maintenance.
Speaking of straight sopranos, less sure. I bought my 875 a year ago, and play it with the straight neck. Like a soprano, without strap. Sidney, Zoot, John or Jerome as visual role models.
Not getting any younger, the bent neck and strap posture might well make sense in a foreseeable future. The interchangeable neck gives you the option. Wayne or Branford can't be wrong...

I think it was Yanagisawa's idea, yes.
Makes a great deal of sense on a curvy. In fact it's pretty much essential - not least in terms of fitting it into a reasonably-sized case.
Where there's a choice of crooks on a straight sop I always opt for the straight one - probably as a throwback to my clarinet-playing days. If I needed a straight sop with a curved crook I'd go for the YSS-62R.

As for the issue of potentials leaks with a detachable crook - yep, it's a distinct possibility...but even with a completely sound joint there always seems to be a bit of a loss in response (for me, anyway).

 

[Mix O Lydian]

Take your horn with you and do a shoot out between it and all the horns.
One sax may feel lighter more balanced in the hands, ergonomics of the keys may feel more natural due to your hand size. I have large hands at least long fingers so some horns feel cramped in my hands.

No one has asked and you have not mentioned but what mouthpiece are you using? A mouthpiece change can bring about tonal and improved ease of control at a moderate price.

Well I'm in my way back from the shop now....WITH my Trevor James soprano still.

I brought my Yamaha 6CM mouthpeice and a Legere size 2.25 synthetic reed.

I just could not play that Yamaha in tune! It was almost a whole semitone flat at times. After a few minutes of embouchure and inside my mouth gymnastics I was hitting the green smiley face on the tuner but not consistently.

I tried my soprano and it was in tune. So I reluctantly had to leave the beautiful 475 in the shop.

I think I'm not ready for the Yamaha soprano yet, perhaps?

Anyway can I shout out Windblowers in Beeston Nottingham. Very lovely helpful people. Well worth the 140 mile round trip for me!

 

[Stephen Howard]

I just could not play that Yamaha in tune! It was almost a whole semitone flat at times. After a few minutes of embouchure and inside my mouth gymnastics I was hitting the green smiley face on the tuner but not consistently.

I tried my soprano and it was in tune. So I reluctantly had to leave the beautiful 475 in the shop.

I had exactly the same problem the first time I played a 475 soprano. In fact it rather shocked me - because making an out-of-tune modern soprano would be commercial suicide, especially for a company like Yamaha. I made a note about it in my review of the sop at the time.
But as I played it over 15 minutes or so it began to come into tune. Half an hour later and I was wondering what on earth I was making a fuss about.
I think what threw me was that I wasn't expecting to have to go through that 'steering' process with a modern horn (pretty much a standard requirement when picking up an unfamiliar vintage sop).

So maybe it might be worth a return trip...and just a little more time blowing it?

 

[Mix O Lydian]

I had exactly the same problem the first time I played a 475 soprano. In fact it rather shocked me - because making an out-of-tune modern soprano would be commercial suicide, especially for a company like Yamaha. I made a note about it in my review of the sop at the time.
But as I played it over 15 minutes or so it began to come into tune. Half an hour later and I was wondering what on earth I was making a fuss about.
I think what threw me was that I wasn't expecting to have to go through that 'steering' process with a modern horn (pretty much a standard requirement when picking up an unfamiliar vintage sop).

So maybe it might be worth a return trip...and just a little more time blowing it?

I'm glad it's not just me then! After a few minutes I was getting in tune notes but was amazed at how out of tune I was on the 475. That's why I left it. Felt lovely I'm my hands though, and in "as new" condition as described. It seemed a bit lighter than my TJ.

 

[Tonehole]

So is your GAS tap shut off after that trip and are you going to keep playing what you brought?
Not that there is much difference but was it a II or a I that you tried? Biggest difference is the thumb rest and some slightly moved toneholes between them I believe. If it was a II you auditioned their best, they adjusted the tuning slightly from the I. Howard can confirm as he is knowledgable on all things saxophone. I reference his reviews as the gospel when considering horns. Doesn’t mean I don't ignore them and take the path less traveled! LOL

Your set up is not holding you back but if you get a chance try a Selmer Super Session piece. I have not tried Selmer's latest offering but reviews are very positive. I Recently bought a E Rousseau Studio Jazz and it is an excellent quality piece made to spec by Jody Jazz. I may be sending you down a different rabbit hole but embrace the adventure. Some time some new bling like a new ligature is just the thing to inspire and make the instrument more your own.

Good hunting.

 

[dexdex]

Sorry for that !
To be honest, I went through similar experiences with a Selmer S-III soprano. This specific guy is very picky in terms of mouthpieces, and doesn't like low pitched loose embouchures like mine. Main reason I didn't keep it.
The 875 I bought a year ago, early model, also challenged my intonation but things settled well after a couple of weeks of regular homework, rehearsals and gigs. I don't even think about it anymore.
Strange enough, my 475, early edition too, no engravings, was so easy to pickup immediately as I tried it at the seller's home for 5 minutes.

 

[Tonehole]

My 475 II is a very early transition model so no "II" engraved on it but the adjustable thumb hook. I thought it might be a Chinese copy horn but the seller produced the original bill of sale from a reputable shop with the matching serial number.
It was light in my hands and sang from the first note. I did not hesitate to buy it.

They really are great and easy playing horns though I am always watching for an R.

 

[Tonehole]

Wouldn't you know this just arrived in my in box. Every thing on sale!LOL

 

[Mix O Lydian]

So is your GAS tap shut off after that trip and are you going to keep playing what you brought?
Not that there is much difference but was it a II or a I that you tried?

I believe it was a mkII. I think this episode of GAS has passed although I really would prefer not to have a removable neck, so it's possible I will end up getting something that is all in one piece, just not the 475.

 

[Tonehole]

I think the issues are over stated and many protest to much about two piece sopranos.
I had a Yani 880 Elimona when attending University. It was 2nd hand from a student who could not pay his rent I had it for a number of years no issues with the neck. My Jupiter Artist has been hard played for about thirteen years and never a problem with the neck. It has had to be re-padded and a few bent keys straightened and aligned from hard bumps and knock overs on stage. I would play it were I would never have taken my MKVI.

The Yani curvy sop CS 9937 I just acquired is a gem of mechanical precision, fit and finish. I don't anticipate any issues with the neck.

The Yamaha YSS675 is a much sought after and desirable horn with no reported neck problems.
Yamaha has been using the two piece on their prestige models for decades now.

I consider the curve neck option a plus but yes you cannot just pull one out of the case adjust a mouthpiece on it and play.

Play on.

 

[Stephen Howard]

I think the issues are over stated and many protest to much about two piece sopranos.

It's mostly down to personal preference - but there are some technical issues associated with detachable crooks on sopranos.
The biggest issue is the fit and seal of the joint. The tenon sleeve is short and the wall thickness of the tube is usually proportionally thicker than on altos and tenors (baritones often have thick-walled tenon sleeves too).
If the joint becomes loose or gets damaged it's often a lot more work to put it right than on an alto or a tenor.
It's also the case with such a short joint that even a slight discrepancy in the seal will produce a leak.
Lastly, you lose the benefit and associated slickness of having the upper octave cup key directly attached to the octave mech.

The biggest plus, though, is that a detachable crook gives you the option of swapping it out for a different one - whether it be a different profile or a custom brand.

 

[Tonehole]

So it has the potential to be a problem that the straight does not have and when it becomes a problem it can be a difficult problem to deal with.
Howard do you encounter this problem in your shop very often? 🤔

 

[PiccoloPirate]

If I was buying a Soprano today, it would be a one piece with a curved neck.

 

[Mix O Lydian]

If I was buying a Soprano today, it would be a one piece with a curved neck.

The detachable necks on my straight soprano both move when I try to adjust my mouthpeice. It's very annoying 😤

 

[Stephen Howard]

So it has the potential to be a problem that the straight does not have and when it becomes a problem it can be a difficult problem to deal with.
Howard do you encounter this problem in your shop very often? 🤔

Quite often. A lot of the time the problem is avoidable though. Players tend to be a bit lax about keeping the crook joint clean - so gunk builds up and abrasion sets in. Not such a big deal on the larger horns but on a soprano you have a lot less material with which to spread the wear around.
I've also dealt with quite a few where the factory fit of the crook was less than optimal - and again, this is a problem that gets worse far more quickly that it would on larger horns.