Playing the saxophone Why do you play saxophone? Some thoughts.

[LostCircuits]

Completely disagree with you on NGT. I love that guy.

Dumb? Hardly.

One of my favorite quotes for context the discussion was on “intelligent design”

“ "I think of, like, the human body, and I look at what's going on between our legs," Tyson said. "There's like a sewage system and entertainment complex intermingling. No engineer of any intelligence would have designed it that way." 😀

Yet, millions of years of evolution later, where almost everything else has changed, this design has prevailed. What does that say about intelligent engineers?

 

[Targa]

Completely disagree with you on NGT. I love that guy.

Dumb? Hardly.

One of my favorite quotes for context the discussion was on “intelligent design”

“ "I think of, like, the human body, and I look at what's going on between our legs," Tyson said. "There's like a sewage system and entertainment complex intermingling. No engineer of any intelligence would have designed it that way." 😀

Hardly an original thought, I first realised that when I reached puberty, well a bit after I suppose.

 

[lig]

Softly then? Come on man... he's a cartoon character now. Even more so than The Science Guy. The corruption of academics. Made for TV.

I am totally fine with a guy who can marry entertainment and education.

You really hate Bill Nye too? 😀

Far better than the proliferation of morons on social media promoting conspiracy theories and snake oil.

NGT may be good at selling himself but I ain't mad at that.

 

[Grumps]

Far better than the proliferation of morons on social media promoting conspiracy theories and snake oil.

No, they're just like them. Having a degree doesn't protect you from imbecility. If you like what they're selling, that's fine; and at least we agree it's selling.

 

[LostCircuits]

Completely disagree with you on NGT. I love that guy.

Dumb? Hardly.

One of my favorite quotes for context the discussion was on “intelligent design”

“ "I think of, like, the human body, and I look at what's going on between our legs," Tyson said. "There's like a sewage system and entertainment complex intermingling. No engineer of any intelligence would have designed it that way." 😀

Ok, let me explain. This design is actually extremely smart and efficient. Urea is a powerful disinfectant and widely used in "primitive" cultures for sterilizing wounds.

The reproductive system requires interaction of two "specimens", often with unknown hygiene but it needs to be protected. So if you have a natural "sterilizer or disinfecting" system in your body, it may be considered a very smart move to combine the two of them. Or, in evolution speak: It happened and provided an evolutionary advantage over other systems that we may never know and because of those advantages, there was never any need to separate the two systems and if it happened, it was unsuccessful in terms of evolution because the "unintelligent design" is still the prevailing system.

Does that explain it?

 

[lig]

Ok, let me explain. This design is actually extremely smart and efficient. Urea is a powerful disinfectant and widely used in "primitive" cultures for sterilizing wounds.

The reproductive system requires interaction of two "specimens", often with unknown hygiene but it needs to be protected. So if you have a natural "sterilizer or disinfecting" system in your body, it may be considered a very smart move to combine the two of them. Or, in evolution speak: It happened and provided an evolutionary advantage over other systems that we may never know and because of those advantages, there was never any need to separate the two systems and if it happened, it was unsuccessful in terms of evolution because the "unintelligent design" is still the prevailing system.

Does that explain it?

It explains your viewpoint.

 

[Woodpad]

Ok, let me explain. This design is actually extremely smart and efficient. Urea is a powerful disinfectant and widely used in "primitive" cultures for sterilizing wounds.

The reproductive system requires interaction of two "specimens", often with unknown hygiene but it needs to be protected. So if you have a natural "sterilizer or disinfecting" system in your body, it may be considered a very smart move to combine the two of them. Or, in evolution speak: It happened and provided an evolutionary advantage over other systems that we may never know and because of those advantages, there was never any need to separate the two systems and if it happened, it was unsuccessful in terms of evolution because the "unintelligent design" is still the prevailing system.

Does that explain it?

I doubt that urea is a good disinfectant. The medical use is mainly as a hydrating substance. The use of pee for cleaning wounds is perhaps logical because of the low micro organism count but not because it works as a desinfectant.

The Human body is more complex than saxophones or rocket science. I don't think we know enough to discuss the quality of its design.

 

[LostCircuits]

I doubt that urea is a good disinfectant. The medical use is mainly as a hydrating substance. The use of pee for cleaning wounds is perhaps logical because of the low micro organism count but not because it works as a desinfectant.

The Human body is more complex than saxophones or rocket science. I don't think we know enough to discuss the quality of its design.

Development and virucidal activity of a novel alcohol-based hand disinfectant supplemented with urea and citric acid - PMC

Hand disinfectants are important for the prevention of virus transmission in the health care system and environment. The development of broad antiviral spectrum hand disinfectants with activity against enveloped and non-enveloped viruses is limited ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Also:
"Its application and effectiveness as a disinfectant vary depending on how it's used:

• Hand Sanitizers: When formulated with low-concentration alcohols and acids (like citric acid), urea has been shown to inactivate both enveloped and non-enveloped viruses. It is also used in skin-friendly topical formulations to improve your skin barrier. [1, 2, 3]
• Waste Management: It is highly effective at sanitizing agricultural waste, human feces, and sludge. When urease enzymes in waste break down urea, the resulting rise in pH and ammonia kills pathogens like Salmonella. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
• Hydrogen Peroxide Compound: Urea is often combined with hydrogen peroxide to form urea peroxide (carbamide peroxide). This specific compound is a very common antiseptic used for oral hygiene, earwax removal, and sterilizing minor wounds. [1]"

 

[LostCircuits]

It explains your viewpoint.

I understand. And it was only the main subject of my masters degree in biology.

 

[Targa]

Ok, let me explain. This design is actually extremely smart and efficient. Urea is a powerful disinfectant and widely used in "primitive" cultures for sterilizing wounds.

The reproductive system requires interaction of two "specimens", often with unknown hygiene but it needs to be protected. So if you have a natural "sterilizer or disinfecting" system in your body, it may be considered a very smart move to combine the two of them. Or, in evolution speak: It happened and provided an evolutionary advantage over other systems that we may never know and because of those advantages, there was never any need to separate the two systems and if it happened, it was unsuccessful in terms of evolution because the "unintelligent design" is still the prevailing system.

Does that explain it?

It is only in mammals and a couple of birds I think though the cloaca might be thought of as similar but ‘cruder’.

 

[LostCircuits]

Really? What about life-bearing fish? No, not whales...
Or reptiles? Ever seen the pecker of a turtle? Or a duck?
Or frogs mating?

 

[Targa]

Really? What about life-bearing fish? No, not whales...
Or reptiles? Ever seen the pecker of a turtle? Or a duck?
Or frogs mating?

“ "I think of, like, the human body, and I look at what's going on between our legs," Tyson said. "There's like a sewage system and entertainment complex intermingling. No engineer of any intelligence would have designed it that way." 😀

From ‘between our legs…….’ it seemed to me it is the human system which was being described.
A duck was included in ‘a couple of birds’, and I did say ‘I think’ knowing there would probably be exceptions I have overlooked.

A cloaca or vent, is the rear orifice that serves as the only opening for the digestive (rectum), reproductive, and urinary tracts (if present) of many vertebrate animals. All amphibians, reptiles, birds, cartilaginous fish and a few mammals (monotremes, afrosoricids, and marsupial moles) have this orifice, from which they excrete both urine and feces; this is in contrast to most placental mammals, which have separate orifices for evacuation and reproduction. Excretory openings with analogous purpose in some invertebrates are also sometimes called cloacae. Mating through the cloaca is called cloacal copulation and cloacal kissing.

 

[mizmar]

Not to mention, with this particular arrangement it's possible to procreate or defecate without having to stop scrolling on your phone.
A fabulous example of forethought by the Great intelligent designer.

 

[LostCircuits]

From ‘between our legs…….’ it seemed to me it is the human system which was being described.
A duck was included in ‘a couple of birds’, and I did say ‘I think’ knowing there would probably be exceptions I have overlooked.

A cloaca or vent, is the rear orifice that serves as the only opening for the digestive (rectum), reproductive, and urinary tracts (if present) of many vertebrate animals. All amphibians, reptiles, birds, cartilaginous fish and a few mammals (monotremes, afrosoricids, and marsupial moles) have this orifice, from which they excrete both urine and feces; this is in contrast to most placental mammals, which have separate orifices for evacuation and reproduction. Excretory openings with analogous purpose in some invertebrates are also sometimes called cloacae. Mating through the cloaca is called cloacal copulation and cloacal kissing.

Well thank you, Sir, for reiterating the wide-spread use of a system that no engineer of any intelligence would ever design.
Much appreciated 😉

 

[wakyct]

Maybe it's time to drop the question from this thread's title.

 

[Woodpad]

Development and virucidal activity of a novel alcohol-based hand disinfectant supplemented with urea and citric acid - PMC

Hand disinfectants are important for the prevention of virus transmission in the health care system and environment. The development of broad antiviral spectrum hand disinfectants with activity against enveloped and non-enveloped viruses is limited ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Also:
"Its application and effectiveness as a disinfectant vary depending on how it's used:

• Hand Sanitizers: When formulated with low-concentration alcohols and acids (like citric acid), urea has been shown to inactivate both enveloped and non-enveloped viruses. It is also used in skin-friendly topical formulations to improve your skin barrier. [1, 2, 3]
• Waste Management: It is highly effective at sanitizing agricultural waste, human feces, and sludge. When urease enzymes in waste break down urea, the resulting rise in pH and ammonia kills pathogens like Salmonella. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
• Hydrogen Peroxide Compound: Urea is often combined with hydrogen peroxide to form urea peroxide (carbamide peroxide). This specific compound is a very common antiseptic used for oral hygiene, earwax removal, and sterilizing minor wounds. [1]"

Maybe slightly of topic, but if
this level of proof is acceptable similar test will show that water is a good disinfectant.

 

[LostCircuits]

Maybe slightly of topic, but if
this level of proof is acceptable similar test will show that water is a good disinfectant.

Then it comes down to "whatever works"

 

[mizmar]

NGT may be good at selling himself but I ain't mad at that.

There's no winning, sometimes.
The assault on science used to be all about "tower", out of touch, etc.
Then there was a big push by government funders, professional institutions and universities to improve Public Engagement. More slots on TV, more popular books, gameshows even...

People asked for and where "sold" media friendly scientists.

Then, with stuff like creationism, many of the media friendly public engagement scientists started being caught up in a political web... And "freedom of speech" wielding commentators started censoring them.... And worse, in some areas.
Then the tsunami of bad science (tobacco, sugar, UPF, oil etc) and tec-bro oligarchs has somewhat leveled the battlefield. Positions individuals take on specific subjects can, of course be argued with. Always. But blanket denigration reeks of ideology.

The flip side is that there are some superb professional and citizen scientists on YouTube, these days. And some dross. The burden is on the individual consumer to really think about it. And that's good.

 

[mark_addy]

(When these discussions get going, I always find myself - left-leaning, cynical about media academics, engineering PhD, finding evolution plausible, churchgoing, bible-reading hymn-singer - alienated from just about all viewpoints. I can't even read music very effectively. Isn't diversity great 🙂 ).

Edit to add: the sewage works / entertainment complex (!) comment was very funny. And reminds me of a scabrous limerick whose unlikely first line was set amongst friends (as the story came to me) as a challenge for completion, and which I will never get the chance to share again:

There once was a girl of Aberystwyth
took some corn to the mill to make grist with
there the miller's son Jack
laid her flat on her back
and united the organs they p*****d with.

I'll get my coat.

 

[Grumps]

Maybe it's time to drop the question from this thread's title.

That's already been answered. It's because we have one. Now we're just wading through the particulars.