Beginner Sax Where Can I buy a Jericho saxophone? And how does a Sakkusu fare against a Jericho?

[Karel Belgium]

No conspiracy, Yamaha were quite open about it all. I have had about half a dozen YAS21/23/25s, and also a YAS 275.

Well, indeed Yamaha has been open, in contrary to most other builders. But as a technician I've had a few young YAS275 in my hand and the alloy of the keys was very weak and soft, as the YAS280 also has. That made me conclude the last 275's are probably (partly) Indonesian. Many builders have their keys made in Asia. It just didn't make much sense to me.

 

[Alphorn]

Am I the only one to take a recommendation against a certain make from a competitor with a grain of salt?

Just as a hint when considering a used Yamaha. Seems Thomann has made a special deal with Yamaha. The YAS280 is currently available from their Danish webshop at 785 €. In Germany it is 799 and until recently it sold at almost 200 € higher for 979 €. Maybe local stores follow this trend.

Alphorn

 

[thomsax]

Let's see what happens instead of being so pessimistic.

Great! They (Yamahas) truly seem more and more like the safe bet. And perhaps not just the safe bet; perhaps the best bet, too. I'll keep an extra eye open for the 23's - I borrowed one this december, and the tone was actually surprisingly nice.

Thanks for all the help

There was a YTS 23 for sale on Jylland just before Christmas. (dba). Other saxes on dba : King 615 tenor (not a H.N. White horn), Conn Selmer tenor near Helsingör, Dixon tenor and a YTS 61 in Aarhus. The YTS 61 is for sale for high price. But they are good saxes. I sold my YTS 25 last november. I played that sax for 5 years. Easy to own and a good sax with good ergonomics. I used to hand in my YTS 25 for annual services. On the last service the tech told that the rod on low F key was stuck. He removed the rod and replaced it . After that I sold my YTS 25 . I'm nowadays back on Martin saxes. A Martin Handcraft tneor -38 is the sax for me! A 80 years old thich wall sax with solid nickelsilver keys. Very sturdy built. I bought it ready to play in NJ in 1995. A real pro did the overhaul/renovation. Very good pads and slight oversized sterling silver resonators/reflectors. And it didn't cost me so much. In the long run maybe it's better to buy a pro horn? Yamaha are good saxes but don't pay too much.

 

[Karel Belgium]

Am I the only one to take a recommendation against a certain make from a competitor with a grain of salt? Alphorn

That was the main reason I stayed away from forums all these years. There is an idea with some people that there is no chance of being objective once you turned your hobby into your profession. I am most certain not the only saxophone tech here on this forum. Probably some other technicians can confirm weaker alloy in recent YAS student horns.

Budget and sound wise: go for old ones. Good materials and once bought seccond hand, the value pretty much remains same

 

[nigeld]

But as a technician I've had a few young YAS275 in my hand and the alloy of the keys was very weak and soft, as the YAS280 also has.

As long as the keys don't actually bend in use or feel soggy, then I doubt if most of us will care if the metal in one sax is softer than another;
(though within limits, of course).

Maybe objectively speaking the keys are weaker and softer on a 280 than on a 23, but I have owned an Indonesian Yamaha alto YAS-280, and I didn't notice that the keys felt soft when I was playing it. It had a great feel.

I remember @Stephen Howard wrote an article comparing the strength of the keys in a Chinese and a Taiwanese sax with a Yanagisawa, and the Yani was actually the softest of the three. So the best-made sax had the softest metal.
Walstein tenor versus Yanagisawa 991

 

[Stephen Howard]

That was the main reason I stayed away from forums all these years. There is an idea with some people that there is no chance of being objective once you turned your hobby into your profession. I am most certain not the only saxophone tech here on this forum. Probably some other technicians can confirm weaker alloy in recent YAS student horns.

I wouldn't worry about 'objectivity'. I've been almost obsessive about maintaining my independence and have taken great pains to ensure the comments in my reviews are backed up with firm evidence. I also endeavour to make it clear that some comments are very much personal opinion. But I still sometimes see people accuse me of bias or favouritism. You're never going to satisfy some people.

As to Yamaha alloys, I've observed that it can be variable. I've seen various models with quite stiff keywork - and identical models with rather less robust keys. However, it's often the case that the weakness isn't so much in the alloy but in the soldered joints. This suggests some problems with how they're dealing with the inevitable annealing that comes from silver-soldering keys together.
I've carried out tests from time to time (because that's what I do) and I'd say that the worst I've seen is comparable to what I've found on Yanagisawa keywork - which, although relatively soft compared to other makes, is nonetheless adequate for purpose.
I do believe, though, that their build quality standard has taken a dive in recent years - particularly on the 62 series horns - but that has to be weighed against the fact that it started from quite a high point.
They still remain a 'safe' bet - but their place as market definers has been slipping...while Asian horns have been getting progressively better.
I'm keeping an eye on it though...

While I'm here, just one point I wanted to pick up on...

better quality brass and nickle plated keys to have a more rigid, stronger feel.

This reads to me like you're implying that nickel plating a key adds stiffness to it.
In the strictest terms it does - but as much as adding a couple of grains of sugar to a cup of tea makes it sweeter.
Or have I misunderstood it?

 

[Colin the Bear]

Soft keys have their place. Anything that moves can be encouraged back. Hard keywork snaps. My old weltklang bari took a tumble a few years back. After much regular adjusting I think it has finally settled down.

 

[Karel Belgium]

Soft keys have their place. Anything that moves can be encouraged back. Hard keywork snaps. My old weltklang bari took a tumble a few years back. After much regular adjusting I think it has finally settled down.

I agree with you. Stiffness doesn't say everything.

 

[Colin the Bear]

There speaks the voice of youth

 

[Karel Belgium]

This reads to me like you're implying that nickel plating a key adds stiffness to it.
In the strictest terms it does - but as much as adding a couple of grains of sugar to a cup of tea makes it sweeter.
Or have I misunderstood it?

Stephen, I've read your work, findings and statements. I can't seem to agree with everything, but I do appreciate your healthy no nonsense, kick-the-snake-oil-out way

Also, about the nickle plating, I stated (semi-carfully) that it gives the horn a more rigid, sturdy FEEL This in order to avoid projecting my empirical "proof" as hard science

 

[Stephen Howard]

Stephen, I've read your work, findings and statements. I can't seem to agree with everything, but I do appreciate your healthy no nonsense, kick-the-snake-oil-out way

What, what? How dare you not agree!! I shall write to The New Musical Express about this!

Dear Sirs,

I agree with me, and I am unanimous in this.

PS. Morrisey is rubbish.

Also, about the nickle plating, I stated (semi-carfully) that it gives the horn a more rigid, sturdy FEEL This in order to avoid projecting my empirical "proof" as hard science

Sure thing, point taken - but the world of saxes seems to be stuffed to the gills with that sort of thing. Thus we get palm key plates that 'add weight to the core' and fancy bell braces that 'improve focus'.
They largely get away with it because it's virtually impossible to measure - but a statement like 'plating adds stiffness' is very measurable indeed. And you can bet your last stick of shellac that some awkward sod will eventually do just that.

 

[aldevis]

Well, indeed Yamaha has been open, in contrary to most other builders. But as a technician I've had a few young YAS275 in my hand and the alloy of the keys was very weak and soft, as the YAS280 also has. That made me conclude the last 275's are probably (partly) Indonesian. Many builders have their keys made in Asia. It just didn't make much sense to me.

The whole Japan was in Asia too, last time I looked on the map.

 

[jonf]

PS. Morrisey is rubbish.

Couldn't agree with you more.

 

[kevgermany]

- but a statement like 'plating adds stiffness' is very measurable indeed. And you can bet your last stick of shellac that some awkward sod will eventually do just that

We already get it with the claims about about silver saxes, delacquering...

 

[gladsaxisme]

By heck have you guys got insomnia

This thing about variable chinese build quality is really a pain in the butt and leaves only one option which has already been stated stick with Yamaha and you won't go far wrong BW I have had one or two and I'm not overly impressed with them, their build quality is hit and miss in my opinion I personally started on an Elkhart series 2 and thought the build quality was exceptional for the money and the deluxe model should be even better and worth a look at

 

[Kierkegaardfan209]

The whole Japan was in Asia too, last time I looked on the map.

Guys, lets settle the geographical questions once and for all in a democratic fashion instead of insisting on looking on old irrelevant maps! How many are for making Japan a part of Europe instead? (No, don't answer here: I'll make new thread for this one! And will send a copy to the Japanese people informing them of the result)

This thing about variable chinese build quality is really a pain in the butt and leaves only one option which has already been stated stick with Yamaha and you won't go far wrong BW I have had one or two and I'm not overly impressed with them, their build quality is hit and miss in my opinion I personally started on an Elkhart series 2 and thought the build quality was exceptional for the money and the deluxe model should be even better and worth a look at

Yes. I would really, really, really like to have a great BW. But I would really, really, really not like to order and get one the "misses" instead of the "hits". If only the unknown Avenger, Marvel's Saxdudehero, were here to ensure the right sax being shipped!
I will probably await Saxdudehero's assistance before buying a BW, sadly, and until then stay focused on the Yamahas /

 

[McAldo]

Hi
I lived in Aarhus for a year or so, and enjoyed it a lot.

I do have a Jericho Alto and I like it a lot, however I am not an experienced player.
As mentioned, they are not available anymore from new, I bought mine off ebay and got lucky with both quality and price.
Perhaps you could set an email update on ebay, while you look into other options, in case something comes up at a reasonable price and from a seller with 100% positive ratings?

 

[Jeanette]

This might still be available if you are set on Jericho For Sale - Jericho alto saxophone in gold and nickel

Jx

 

[gladsaxisme]

If it's still available must be ideal for someone that really wants one when I first saw this thread I was thinking there had been one on yard sale not long ago, well done Jeanette

 

[Colin the Bear]

This popped up on ebay

Jupiter 500 series Alto Saxophone | eBay