What would stop a G from sounding?

[colin_]

Hi Chaps and chapesses,

I need some advice as to what I should be looking for here, as I'm not terribly familiar with the technical aspects of the saxophone.

My G's (throughout the range) on my Tenor suddenly stopped working mid-practice yesterday. I had a good look over the keywork, pads etc. to see if anything was obviously awry but couldn't see anything and assumed it was perhaps a build-up of moisture somewhere. I gave it a good clean through as I always do and thought it would probably be alright the next day. But no joy... :cry:

The A's are also very stuffy but G's are the worst - most often not sounding and feeling like there is a lot of resistance there, but sometimes just sounding a high overtone instead.

What should I be looking for?

 

[mfox]

i would check around the g# mech first.. it may well have lost its cork and not closing the hole properly..with it being a reverse key and with the aid of gravity it could just be open when playing G


griff would be best guy to answer

 

[griff136]

G# is a good place to start , check its closing properly by operating the key and placing a cigarette paper inbetween the pad and the tonehole ( i cut the glue off first and then cut the remaining rectangle across the diagonal I'm left with 2 triangles ( I use blue papers) check that the pad is closing properly all round the pads circumference by letting the pad close on the paper and then gently pull on the paper there should be enough resistance when gently pulling on the paper.

I would then check the following pads in the same manner:

the link between the bar key, bis key and A ( these should close with equal pressure when you finger middle C

the bar key (the little pad above the B pad - this should close with equal pressure when B and a are closed.

check B and A

side B and C,

palm keys, High F and F#



let us know how you get on.

 

[griff136]

alternatively you could use a leak light ( a bulb on a wire basically - a bright enough bulb that is small enough to fit down the neck receiver end of the sax)
Turn off the lights and draw the curtains, put the bulb down the sax body and start from the top high F# and work your way down.

my leak light cost me around ?15 - if anyone wants one made up PM me.

 

[colin_]

Thanks Griff, I think I've got it.

A sliver of cork is missing from under the A key, so it's not closing fully unless the bis key is down.

I should be able to manage that. :S

 

[griff136]

if you are going to glue some cork back on there use evostick contact adhesive - apply a thin layer to each surface - let it go off - for a couple of mins then pres together.

to get an even thin layer i use old reeds and trim off the excess with a razor blade

you may find it easier to "dry fit" the cork first, cut it to the right shape and get it the right thickness before you glue it.

 

[colin_]

Much obliged G.

Let's see if it makes it through tonight's practice...

C

 

[griff136]

your welcome

 

[jools]

EVOSTICK!- gahhhh. Such a fiddly business, all these tiny bits of cork. I've been grappling with several horns for a few weeks now, trying to learn how to fix them. It's endless. The amount of times I've got one touch point sorted only to find it's too big so I sand it back and then find that it's too thin for the other connector so I have to take it off and start again. AGH! it takes a very patient outlook to get the job done. I can fully see why it costs so much to have it done professionally. Hours of work.

 

[nosaxyet]

Jools wrote:
AGH! it takes a very patient outlook to get the job done. I can fully see why it costs so much to have it done professionally. Hours of work.

I suspect less the amount of time to do the job and more the years of knowledge that go into knowing how much to shave off.... :bow:

 

[PaulyT]

Colin wrote:

My G's (throughout the range) on my Tenor suddenly stopped working mid-practice yesterday. I had a good look over the keywork, pads etc. to see if anything was obviously awry but couldn't see anything

Hi One and all,

The self same thing happened to my Alto today - A dodgy sounding G which just became more dodgy sounding when I pressed the octave key. I couldn't see anything wrong at all. I carried on playing and just worked harder on my embouchure - I very nearly got the correct note a number of times!!
I came home thinking that I was going to have to get it looked at and - through the advice and guidance on this thread, I've fixed it.
Thank you everyone,
PaulyT

 

[jools]

I was having a dig on my book shelf and found something that might be useful for anyone else having this problem.

Erick Brand, a notable technician from Elkhart, Indiana, wrote the following observations...
---
A "fuzzy" upper G or G sharp is due, primarily to the acoustical requirement of the octave key position and the mechanical limitations of placing octave vents. For the best results, each note on the saxophone would require its own octave key hole. This, however would produce an octave key mechanism so complicated and so liable to get out of order that it is just not practical. The most practical octave key system is the automatic "two key" method. There have been some three hole systems that have been applied to some instruments but they are expensive and prone to malfunction.

You will see that the G and G sharp are right at the point where the upper key closes and the lower key opens. This means that the octave vent or hole is considerably off its 'proper' position for these notes. Because of this, everything must be in the proper adjustment to get good results when playing those notes.

(Therefore) Make sure that there is no accumulation of dirt in both octave tone holes and see that the key opens as far as possible over those holes - at least 1 to 2 times the diameter of the hole. Also, see that the pad is quite flat. A deep impression in the octave pad can also contribute to a "fuzzy" sound. You'll (also) often find corrosion in the octave holes which only a drill can remove."
---
(Abridged from "Band Instrument Repairing Manual" by Erick D. Brand. 4th Edition. 1946. )

-sounds like a job for a pro, if it's really bad.

__________
Just a small bit of news...
I was in B&Q at the weekend (other multiple hardware retailers are availble) and discovered that they sell sticky back cork. They market it as "ornament anti-slip feet" but as an emergency repair item they look great for a sax. I bought a couple as they come in 16mm discs and a bigger one (25mm?) - the thickness is about 1mm, which would be great if you just needed a stopgap, to cure 'clicking' palm keys etc.