Theory & Impro The Altered Scale

[Linky Lee]

I started covering this with my teacher today. It's a really useful bit of knowledge as it works beautifully over a IIm7-V7-Imaj7 progression which crop up everywhere in jazz.

The altered scale has a 'dominant' chord to it. So use it over the V7.

It can be made in many ways.

1. Raise the root of the V7 by a semi-tone and play the melodic minor but starting on the original root.

or

2. Flatten every note except the tonic of the V7.

or

3. play the major scale a semi-tone below the V7 but sharpen the tonic.

I personally prefer the 1st method.

In use, it can create a lovely chromatic rising pattern over the II V I progression.

For example, in F major.

Over the Gm7 play: G A Bb C D E F G
over the C7 play: Ab Bb C Db Eb E Gb Ab
over the Fmaj7 play: A Bb(B) C D E F G A (or B for Lydian).

You can come up with any pattern and apply it to that progression and it will sound really cool.

 

[sam_moreton]

o really?

ill give it a go in rehearsals tommorow

thanks for the lesson 😉

 

[Linky Lee]

I wrote it, kind of as a lesson for whomever wants it, but more to recap and get it going round my brain again. drill it drill it drill it!

 

[Bobby G]

This is good stuff Lee (singing it in my head for now), just wait 'til I get the horn out tomorrow.

This works for all II V I sequences in a tune, does it? Even small sections in a tune with a different key centre to the original key?

 

[Linky Lee]

yep, as long as it's IIm - V7. you can also play it over the IIm as it's similar to a tritone substitute!!!

 

[danmays]

It's all well and good playing the scales for these but you're just just going to play the scale over a dominant 7 of a m7b5.

It's best to find shapes within the melodic minor that are descriptive; my way in at the moment is learning Maj7#5 chords (third chord of the melodic minor) and applying that to ii-Vs or even to turnarounds i.e

Em7b5 - A7alt - D7#11 - G7alt and then playing the correspondent Maj7#5 shapes on them so....

Bbmaj7#5 - Dbmaj7#5 - Cmaj7#5 - Bmaj7#5

Alternatively you can write out the chords of each scale for a particular progression and use chords that are closely relating by their root.

Hope this makes sense?!?
Dan

 

[Simon]

That's true Dan, but then if you look at the Maj7#5 chords your using, they're just different modes of the melodic minor the progression chords come from anyway -

Bbmaj7#5 (Em7b5) - from GmM7
Dbmaj7#5 (A7alt) - from BbmM7
Cmaj7#5 (D7#11) - from AmM7
Bmaj7#5 (G7alt) - from AbmM7

... or is this what you meant by

"Alternatively you can write out the chords of each scale for a particular progression and use chords that are closely relating by their root."

?

Simon

DanMays wrote:
It's all well and good playing the scales for these but you're just just going to play the scale over a dominant 7 of a m7b5.

It's best to find shapes within the melodic minor that are descriptive; my way in at the moment is learning Maj7#5 chords (third chord of the melodic minor) and applying that to ii-Vs or even to turnarounds i.e

Em7b5 - A7alt - D7#11 - G7alt and then playing the correspondent Maj7#5 shapes on them so....

Bbmaj7#5 - Dbmaj7#5 - Cmaj7#5 - Bmaj7#5

Alternatively you can write out the chords of each scale for a particular progression and use chords that are closely relating by their root.

Hope this makes sense?!?
Dan

 

[danmays]

Hey Simon,

Yeh that's what i meant... with the maj#5 chords.. Just is a shape that's easy to transpose and understand as a way into melodic minor chords.

As for "Alternatively you can write out the chords of each scale for a particular progression and use chords that are closely relating by their root."

Say you have..

Dmin7b5 - B melodic minor

BminMaj7
C#susb9
Dmaj7#5
E7#11
F#7b13
G#min7b5natural9
A#Alt

G Alt - Ab Melodic Minor

AbminMaj7
Bbsusb9
BMaj7#5
Db#11
Eb7b13
Fmin7b5natural9
GAlt

C-Maj7 - C melodic Minor

CminMaj7
D#susb9
Ebmaj7#5
F7#11
G#7b13
A#min7b5natural9
B#Alt

You can take different chords with the same or close root notes and play them to create the sound the progression. i.e Bminmaj7 to Bbsusb9 to B Alt. And similar variations

I just couldn't be bothered to write all this out, I haven't even started delving into this technique properly but it's something to think about.

Dan

 

[danmays]

Sorry please ignore the C melodic minor I copied and pasted from the Bmelodic minor and forgot to take the sharps out should go like this...


CminMaj7
Dsusb9
Ebmaj7#5
F7#11
G7b13
Amin7b5natural9
BAlt

 

[Simon]

Hi Dan... certainly is something to think about. Modes of the melodic minor sound great.
Simon

DanMays wrote:
Hey Simon,

Yeh that's what i meant... with the maj#5 chords.. Just is a shape that's easy to transpose and understand as a way into melodic minor chords.

As for "Alternatively you can write out the chords of each scale for a particular progression and use chords that are closely relating by their root."

Say you have..

Dmin7b5 - B melodic minor

BminMaj7
C#susb9
Dmaj7#5
E7#11
F#7b13
G#min7b5natural9
A#Alt

G Alt - Ab Melodic Minor

AbminMaj7
Bbsusb9
BMaj7#5
Db#11
Eb7b13
Fmin7b5natural9
GAlt

C-Maj7 - C melodic Minor

CminMaj7
D#susb9
Ebmaj7#5
F7#11
G#7b13
A#min7b5natural9
B#Alt

You can take different chords with the same or close root notes and play them to create the sound the progression. i.e Bminmaj7 to Bbsusb9 to B Alt. And similar variations

I just couldn't be bothered to write all this out, I haven't even started delving into this technique properly but it's something to think about.

Dan

 

[danmays]

Damn straight 🙂

 

[pete_canter]

Hi Dan. But doesn't Dm7b5 come out of F melodic minor not B melodic minor? m7b5 is the VI chord in melodic minor so the "rule" is go up a minor 3rd from the root of the m7b5 to find the parent melodic minor scale not down. Pete

 

[danmays]

Haha yeah you're right, for everyone who read this I am a fool... It should go like this....

Dmin7b5 - F melodic minor

FminMaj7
Gsusb9
Abmaj7#5
Bb7#11
C7b13
Dmin7b5natural9
EAlt

G Alt - Ab Melodic Minor

AbminMaj7
Bbsusb9
BMaj7#5
Db#11
Eb7b13
Fmin7b5natural9
GAlt

C-Maj7 - C melodic Minor

CminMaj7
D#susb9
Ebmaj7#5
F7#11
G#7b13
A#min7b5natural9
B#Alt


Apologies!
Dan

 

[Linky Lee]

I don't think you're a fool, I started this thread and got lost half way down.
I'm sure I'll read it another time and it will make more sense, but you need to hear these things and see them and have them explained to really get a grasp of them.

Would make a great DVD. Jazz theory and it's applications by sight sound and explanation (what a long winded title, sounds like a dusty book I have somewhere).

 

[danmays]

The thing I found with the Mark levine book is that you get so wrapped up in the theory of it all that you forget to apply it and then you sound awful when you get up on the band stand.. My suggestion is transcribe some solos and then analyse them in terms of what scale choices the player is making; then take those licks into different keys etc....

Cheers!
Dan