Intonation Temperature, Tuning & Playing Live

[Veggie Dave]

I think it's safe to say anyone who's been on here for a few years will know I've something of an obsession about varying ambient temperatures when playing live affecting intonation and basic tuning. A year or so ago I started using a clip-on tuner, which was a god-send - being able to check your tuning no matter how loud the stage/venue was changed everything.

Then this summer I tried something new. Using a greenhouse digital thermometer, I marked on my cork where my sax was perfectly in tune for me at 20C. As the summer got hotter, I was able to do the same thing at 25C. Since then, I've been setting my mouthpiece position based on the ambient temperature and these two markings ... and it's worked faultlessly, both during practice and on stage.

However, in both instances the temperature has remained relatively consistent from start to finish, so not exactly a huge challenge to the concept.

Until this weekend.

At the start of our show, the ambient temperature on stage was a chilly 18C. By the end of the first hour it was 23.5C. If the horns had been left alone, the tuning by the end of that first hour would have been painfully out. As this is a pop/rock show, it's not like you can keep tweaking the mouthpiece while you're playing as you're not playing section parts - it's nothing for half the song then straight in with the big solo followed by a couple of songs with no sax at all. Given how quickly the stage was warming, using a tuner would have been problematic, too, as I also play a lot of other instruments. I just don't have the time between songs to be constantly re-tuning. The alto would've been an even bigger issue as it's only used on the very last song of the 1st set; there's no pause between the previous tenor song and the alto one, and it's a ballad so there would be no hiding the sound of it being tuned.

Being able to see what the on stage temp was, I was able to visually move the mouthpiece on both horns to keep them perfectly in tune as the temperature rapidly changed. Very quick and very simple. I've heard recordings from the show and know that it worked perfectly. Every solo is absolutely bang on.

 

[mrblackbat]

This is why I like to use my ears and embouchure to tune. Flat? Tighten up a shade. Sharp? Drop the jaw a little more.

 

[turf3]

I never thought of doing this, but it's not a bad idea.

Of course, then there's the gig where one end of the upright piano is in front of the open door to the loading dock and the outside temp is around 28F, while the other end is under the heating vent. When the piano bass is half a tone sharp and the piano treble is half a tone flat, it gives a whole new meaning to "tuning on the fly".

 

[Veggie Dave]

This is why I like to use my ears and embouchure to tune. Flat? Tighten up a shade. Sharp? Drop the jaw a little more.

I used to do that - it's not reliable enough, particularly if the monitoring isn't perfect (the number of horn players I've heard that are out of tune is unbelievable and totally unacceptable), and after 2 hours of playing, the difference between having lipped up or down because of temperature changes compared to being in tune to start with is the difference between nailing that big solo at the end with your full tone and not.

And the idea that you're not still using your ears ... it's not like horns are perfectly in tune, so of course you're using your ears. The difference is, you're making small adjustments that don't kill your endurance during long shows.

 

[Pete Effamy]

It’s not a question of jaw, it’s a question of using your throat and tongue. If in doubt tune sharp as you can deal with it but a flat horn beyond will stay flat.
I’ve only had to adjust the mouthpiece when doing an outdoor festival when properly cold, like 10C or less.