Theory & Impro Sweet Sue, Just You chords

[mhickler]

MAJOR EDIT:
I realized I should not be asking you folks to do the work for me. Maybe instead someone could point me in the direction of some chord substitutions. I'd probably learn more that way.


ORIGINAL MESSAGE
I've chosen "Sweet Sue, Just You" for my first jazz adventure. The chords I find online range between over simplified to nightmarish. Would any kind soul venture to arrange an intermediate chord structure for me in the key of G? Or, maybe even better, in the roman numeral system?


Here are some chords off a Dixieland Banjo page. I couldn't get the chords to line up, but you get the idea.


Am D7 Am D7
Ev -'ry star a -bove Knows the one I love
Em D7 Em D7
Sweet Sue Just you
Am D7 Am D7 C7
And the moon up high knows the reas -on why
Em D7 Em D7
Sweet Sue it's you.
F G7 Dm E7
No one else it seems Ev -er shares my dreams
Am F9 D7
And with -out you dear, I don't know what I'd do
Am D7 Am D7
In this heart of mine You live all the time
Em C7 Em G
Sweet Sue just you.

I like them and they are good for a start, but maybe a couple of enhancements?

Thanks

 

[colin_]

Just some ideas to get you started....

1. Try changing some of the minor chords to half-diminished (m7b5) and the following dominant 7th to a 7b9.

2. Try changing some of the dominant 7th chords for the dominant 7th that is 6 semitones away (a tritone substitution, ie. C to Gb). It may not suit this context but is useful to know. You can also do the same thing but keeping the original bass note (altered chord) or change the bass note but not the chord (also altered). this opens up a whole new world of sound. 😉 It also works well (often more natural) to play the tritone substitution after the original chord by halving the time spent on each chord. So a 2-5-1 in C might go: Dm7, G7 / Db7, C maj 7.

3. Write out the melody and experiment with alternative chords that incorporate those melody notes. So if you have a C in the melody you could potentially use: Any chord built on C, F or A minor, plus may others such as: Ab, Dm7, D7, Db maj 7, B7b9, Bb9, Bb maj 9, Eb6, Eb13, Gsus7, A7#9, Gb7b5, etc. etc. Fun isn't it? Of course only a few of these will work in context and you might want to look for sequences which will give you a naturally chromatic or walking bass figure.

4. Add in some diminished chords in between the written or re-harmonised sequence in order to create more chromaticism in the bass line without disturbing the melody too much.

Ooh, the possibilities are endless but have fun trying and you will learn some useful techniques that you can readily apply to other tunes. Let us know what you come up with.

 

[Simon]

Hi

Er, the tune is pretty simple re harmony and its a trad jazz tune so it'd be quite easy to get 'nightmarish' I'd imagine. Lotsa ii-V7-Is.

Anyway to give it a bit of 'zing' (which may sound nightmarish to you)

Am D7 Am7 Eb9#11 D7sus
Ev -'ry star a -bove Knows the one I love

D7b9 G6 Em7 Am7 D7b9 G C9
Sweet Sue Just you

Bm11 Bb9#11 (as before)
And the moon up high knows the reas -on why

(as before) D7b9 G6 Am7 Bbdim
Sweet Sue it's you.

G/B Dm7 G7 G/F E7sus
No one else it seems Ev -er shares my dreams

E7 Am AmM7 Am7 Am6 F9
nd with -out you dear, I don't know what I'd do

(as before)
In this heart of mine You live all the time
G G7/B C9 G
Sweet Sue just you.

Good luck.
Simon

mhickler wrote:
MAJOR EDIT:
I realized I should not be asking you folks to do the work for me. Maybe instead someone could point me in the direction of some chord substitutions. I'd probably learn more that way.


ORIGINAL MESSAGE
I've chosen "Sweet Sue, Just You" for my first jazz adventure. The chords I find online range between over simplified to nightmarish. Would any kind soul venture to arrange an intermediate chord structure for me in the key of G? Or, maybe even better, in the roman numeral system?


Here are some chords off a Dixieland Banjo page. I couldn't get the chords to line up, but you get the idea.


Am D7 Am D7
Ev -'ry star a -bove Knows the one I love
Em D7 Em D7
Sweet Sue Just you
Am D7 Am D7 C7
And the moon up high knows the reas -on why
Em D7 Em D7
Sweet Sue it's you.
F G7 Dm E7
No one else it seems Ev -er shares my dreams
Am F9 D7
And with -out you dear, I don't know what I'd do
Am D7 Am D7
In this heart of mine You live all the time
Em C7 Em G
Sweet Sue just you.

I like them and they are good for a start, but maybe a couple of enhancements?

Thanks

 

[Simon]

Yeah sure you could, but it's trad jazz so you'd have to consider the audience. If yer just messin round and no-one else has to hear it then fine, but there a way better tunes to use for experimenting with harmony than this one.

My 5p
Simon

Colin wrote:
Just some ideas to get you started....

1. Try changing some of the minor chords to half-diminished (m7b5) and the following dominant 7th to a 7b9.

2. Try changing some of the dominant 7th chords for the dominant 7th that is 6 semitones away (a tritone substitution, ie. C to Gb). It may not suit this context but is useful to know. You can also do the same thing but keeping the original bass note (altered chord) or change the bass note but not the chord (also altered). this opens up a whole new world of sound. 😉 It also works well (often more natural) to play the tritone substitution after the original chord by halving the time spent on each chord. So a 2-5-1 in C might go: Dm7, G7 / Db7, C maj 7.

3. Write out the melody and experiment with alternative chords that incorporate those melody notes. So if you have a C in the melody you could potentially use: Any chord built on C, F or A minor, plus may others such as: Ab, Dm7, D7, Db maj 7, B7b9, Bb9, Bb maj 9, Eb6, Eb13, Gsus7, A7#9, Gb7b5, etc. etc. Fun isn't it? Of course only a few of these will work in context and you might want to look for sequences which will give you a naturally chromatic or walking bass figure.

4. Add in some diminished chords in between the written or re-harmonised sequence in order to create more chromaticism in the bass line without disturbing the melody too much.

Ooh, the possibilities are endless but have fun trying and you will learn some useful techniques that you can readily apply to other tunes. Let us know what you come up with.

 

[colin_]

Sorry I forgot to mention E7b13 for chords incorporating a 'C'!!

Probably a few others too but as you can see you could start with any melody note and fit a chord built on any chosen bass note. This might be helpful if you need to incorporate a particular note in your bass line.

Then there are all the inversions and.....and.... 😱

 

[colin_]

Yeah sure you could, but it's trad jazz so you'd have to consider the audience. If yer just messin round and no-one else has to hear it then fine, but there a way better tunes to use for experimenting with harmony than this one.

My 5p
Simon

Absolutely Simon, I'm not familiar with this particular tune and so was only giving some generic ideas for experimentation. Still I see you managed to squeeze a b9#11 in there! 🙂

The chromatic diminished chord thing will keep you within the idiom nicely though - maybe forget the tritone subs for this one.

 

[RiceBag]

Thanks Simon and Colin for this post.

I have saved it for further study.

I don't know the melody, but when I play some of these chord arrangements, often some tune I am familiar with comes to mind, and that's one way I am picking up a little bit at a time.

Also, the explanations do help, specially generalized ideas. 😉

 

[sam_moreton]

a couple of things I dont think have been said..

The ii iii and the vi chords in a major key are interchangeable.

Dont be afraid to use partial chords, omitting unimportant notes in a chord. eg. a Bb13 chord can be played with just the notes Ab, D and G
but you could also call it an AbMaj7b5.

And the golden rule is.. "Taste is a virtue"

 

[RiceBag]

The ii iii and the vi chords in a major key are interchangeable.
-sam moreton-
----------------------------

Another jewel for me to study and of which to behold its twinkle in my eyes...

Thank you Sam!

 

[Simon]

Hi Sam

sam moreton wrote:
a couple of things I dont think have been said..
The ii iii and the vi chords in a major key are interchangeable.

I hear the I, iii and vi as interchangeable... but the ii? How does that work with the 3rd of the ii being the 4th of the major?

Dont be afraid to use partial chords, omitting unimportant notes in a chord. eg. a Bb13 chord can be played with just the notes Ab, D and G but you could also call it an AbMaj7b5. And the golden rule is.. "Taste is a virtue"

But Abmaj7b5 would be better with a C (the 3rd) 😉

Simon

 

[sam_moreton]

simon wrote:
Hi Sam

I hear the I, iii and vi as interchangeable... but the ii? How does that work with the 3rd of the ii being the 4th of the major?

Oops thats what I meant, It's still relatively new to me
:whistle:

simon wrote:

Dont be afraid to use partial chords, omitting unimportant notes in a chord. eg. a Bb13 chord can be played with just the notes Ab, D and G but you could also call it an AbMaj7b5. And the golden rule is.. "Taste is a virtue"

But Abmaj7b5 would be better with a C (the 3rd) 😉

Simon

You don't really have to have the Major 3rd if you got the Major 7. It depends what context you use it ini suppose. I guess the Ab D and G could also be used as a m/M7 (no 3rd) but that would be a little odd and isn't as commonly used

 

[Simon]

No worries man. The Ab D G thing is cool -> #4 (D) is a fav of mine, but try it over Ab Gb, so you get a Lydian Dom sound (7#4). Over Ab G (a major 7th interval) the D sounds a bit 'lost' in there to me.

I wouldn't ditch the 3rds altogether - it's the 3-7 thing that is important. Drop the root or the 5th.. they're weak(er)!

Simon

sam moreton wrote:

simon wrote:
Hi Sam

I hear the I, iii and vi as interchangeable... but the ii? How does that work with the 3rd of the ii being the 4th of the major?

Oops thats what I meant, It's still relatively new to me
:whistle:

simon wrote:

Dont be afraid to use partial chords, omitting unimportant notes in a chord. eg. a Bb13 chord can be played with just the notes Ab, D and G but you could also call it an AbMaj7b5. And the golden rule is.. "Taste is a virtue"

But Abmaj7b5 would be better with a C (the 3rd) 😉

Simon

You don't really have to have the Major 3rd if you got the Major 7. It depends what context you use it ini suppose. I guess the Ab D and G could also be used as a m/M7 (no 3rd) but that would be a little odd and isn't as commonly used

 

[RiceBag]

Thanks Simon for your clarifications.
I'll correct my notes. 🙂