• New!

    Try our new Social Feeds, look out for the navigation icon: . You can now set default social feed view in your account preferences.

Beginner Saxes Suggestions For A Good Beginner Alto Sax

Thanks very much again, I'll definitely start soaking the reed in listerine and massaging it before and after playing. Embouchure is definitely biggest problem right now, but obviously that will come more naturally with lots of practice.

Also, not sure what it is called exactly, but the part of the neck where you slide the mouthpiece on I think I may put it on too tightly and/or put too much cork grease last time I played because when I took it off there was a sort of indent on it; the part where the mouthpiece was is now slightly thinner than the rest (it was on most of the way down). Now I am paranoid because I just got the sax and don't know much about it but is it compromised in any way?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
The neck cork will get an indentation. However they're often made a little too large, so they can e adjusted for a specific mouthpiece. Use a good smear of cork grease each time you put the mouthpiece on. The cork will swell back again in steam - carefully hold it over a boiling kettle.

If the cork's really too tight (check with your teacher), hold the neck really carefully in a vice (rubber jaws, or put card over them) and use a strip of fine sandpard (e.g. 600 grit wet & dry) to work around the neck sanding a little off all the way around. But usually the cork complresses down and the mouthpiece fits OK after a few weeks.

Lubricant on the neck tenon is not recommended. It holds fine grit and can lead to more wear than not using it.
 
If you're consistently flat through the range of the sax, then the mouthpiece needs to go on further or, less likely, the mouthpiece is a poor match to the sax. Try playing single notes with the tuner and see if you can lip them into pitch. You should be able to get all the notes in tune without excessive lip pressure.

Tone's something that grows over time, part will be you, but can also be down to mouthpiece/reed. Opening your throat makes a big difference. As does good support from the stomach muscles/diaphragm, but I'd guess that they're there already from the oboe. The way to improve tone is long tones - play a single note, hold it and improve the sound as you play, by tongue/throat/lip/support/angle of sax/position of mouth on mouthpiece changes. Really you're trying to tune your body into the sax.

I hesitate to ask which mouthpiece you're using, but if it's the one that came with the sax, consider a good beginners one - like a yamaha, rico, or Tom's favourite, the runyon.
 
or Tom's favourite, the runyon.

And Charlie Parker's too.......! That is the Runyon 22. What is the reed type and strength that you are playing? Playing a reed tat is too hard will produce a weaker tone, but what Kev says is spot on. I would also add that it is a good idea just to concentrate on a small range of notes to start with - for example low D to low A and gradually expand when the othrs have the sound that you like - don't rush it - no point.

Kind regards
Tom
 
Hi There!

The mouthpiece, which looks pretty good has a tip opening of 0.079", which might be a little too large - 0.070" or less might be better at this stage. Also I would try some Rico 2 strength reeds. The ligature is a very good one - just make sure you don't overtighten it.

A Runyon 22 with a 4 tip opening (0.066"), a Rico Graftonite B3 (0.070") or a Yamaha 5C (0.067") would be good alternatives at low price. The one you have is an Intermediate piece so will be of use a bit later on - you possibly need a beginner piece to start with. Same with the reeds IMO.

Hope this helps.
Kind regards
Tom

I use 2 1/2 reeds on Alto with a 0.078" mouthpiece at the moment (up to 0.085") and Alto is my main instrument. If you look up the "jody Jazz Alto Mouthpiece Comparison Chart" you will notice that 0.079" is in the category of what pros normally play, so do go smaller in terms of tip opening, and do try a softer reed (Rico Jazz Select 2S would be an alternative recommendation.
 
Advice!

Welcome OTL 🙂

The first source of answers to your questions should be your teacher....if he/she is any good he'll be able to see and hear what you are doing, and tell what and how you need to change and practice.
We can only make general recommendations, and most of us have at least slightly different experience of learning and teaching. And not being able to see and hear you makes such advice even more 'random'!

What just about every body agrees on is that practising 'long tones' is both very useful , and pretty boring 🙂 . But it does pay-off, if you concentrate on listening to the sound you are making, getting it 'better' by adjusting your embouchure and breath control), and then holding it for as long as you can!
Do a few minutes at the start of each practice session (which should be 'little and often' to start with), and you will improve quickly 🙂
Pete has some good advice on LTs, if you search the site!

Good luck, and keep asking ...even if you do ask your teacher, we may be able to put a different slant on his answers which help you to understand them better.
There are LOTS of very experienced players on this site (not including me!)

And finally, the best bit of advice my teacher gave me, up-front, was not to have 'unreasonable expectations' (e.g. of being another Charlie Parker within six months :lol: ) It's a marathon, not a sprint.
 
All right thanks a lot; yeah Roger I have no unrealistic expectations as to how quickly I am going to progress I just thought I'd be able to play a G by now without it sounding the first or second overtone and gradually going down hahaha. Thanks Kevin very much for all the advice particularly the things to experiment with while playing the long tones. I've taken a look at the Runyon 22 Tom, what exactly is the mouthpiece's "facing"? It comes in facings #3-#6.

Would it be fine to start playing with the mouthpiece/reeds I have now which are the more advanced measurements and get comfortable with them from the beginning even if it's a steeper hill to climb or would it be smarter to as some of you suggested get the Runyon 22 and some size 2 reeds and work my way up? Thanks again everyone.
 
Hi There!

Learning a sax is not an exact science - it can be trial and error - so what I have said is subjective. In my experience (I have had a total of 9 teachers in various instruments) I would say that the majority of those teachers knew very little about equipment, and only 2 offered any advice about equipment - which mouthpiece sounded better in both cases. However, they did know all there was to know about playing said instrument etc.

There is a commonly accepted wisdom that you should stick with a set mouthpiece for a year or more and not "chop and change" which I think is potentially flawed. I would argue that it is better to have some alternatives in order that you can make a more informed choice of what you play/learn on. Not every mouthpiece is right for everyone, not every reed is playable for everyone, and having an alternative choice can help enormously. Hence having a cheap alternative mouthpiece to your Kessler might be really helpful, just as having an alternative strength reed might help clarify a few things also, at minimal cost.

Regarding Facing/Tip opening - this refers to the gap between the tip of the mouthpiece and the tip of the reed. The larger the gap the harder to play but louder and possibly larger range of expression. The smaller the gap the easier to play (unless too small) and quieter, usually more precise sound produced. People who play larger tip openings often use softer reeds. If you look on the Jody Jazz Comparison Chart - on the Jody Jazz website - you will see the sizes of the various manufactures facings/tip openings. Many manufacturers use slightly different numbering systems - hence a Runyon #4 is smaller than a Rico#3 - thus the chart can help by spelling out the actual size in thousands of an inch (or centimetres in the case of some European brands like Vandoren/Francois Louis).

So I would recommend trying out various combinations of mouthpiece/reed to see what feels most comfortable at this stage, and to narrow down what may be affecting your note production at this stage. Practising long tones is excellent, but you do need equipment that feels comfortable at this stage, so I stick by my recommendation, and make no assumptions whatsoever that all teachers are clued up on equipment etc. I play trumpet, and started on the Bach 7C mouthpiece (16.20mm) recommended by virtually every trumpet teacher. I used to be frustrated that my range of notes was not what I liked it to be. I bought a Bach 1 1/2C (17.00mm) on ebay - it was cheap - and suddenly found a much wider, more expressive range of sound than with the 7C. I currently play between 17.25mm & 17.75mm mouthpieces, but struggle with anything smaller.

A Rico mpc will cost you less than $17, and a Runyon 22 about $30, and you can get reeds in packs of 3. I am not recommending endless chopping and changing of equipment but having an additional mouthpiece (smaller) and reed (softer) will give you 4 combinations & not just one. Imagine that you had to make do with size 8 shoes when you were actually a size 7.5 or even 7.

Kind regards
Tom
 
Thank You ...

I would like to single out and praise Tom for his many replies to questions from us beginners ...

He is never shy to come forward ... and often explains his reasoning in a fair amount of detail by taking the time and trouble to do so ...

He regularly offers informed advice to those who ask questions and seems to cover the information he offers in a comprehensive way ...

:welldone Well done Tom, I have taken note of much you have said - Thank you mate ...:thankyou:

I know many "or most" of the members here are very helpful in their offerings ... I would also like to say "what a great bunch you all are" ...

"Thank you All" for the help and advice you give to so many of us, It is really appreciated :thankyou:

PS - Tom ... I am so glad you got out of the bath at last ... View attachment 741

PPS - What on earth are you doing to that poor duck ... :shocked:
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I have been very lucky in having a teacher who is not exactly a 'gear freak', but is always prepared (in fact enthusiastic!) to try-out a new mouthpiece, and to comment on which sounds better when I play, as well as knowing all the technical stuff about mpcs. Most important, he is not prejudiced .... he has a couple of Mk VI tenors, but doesn't run-down other/modern saxes or mpcs 🙂
(The teacher I tried, briefly, in the 80s, almost put me off for ever ... he was very much 'going through the motions' 🙁 )

Interestingly, I found very small tip-openings almost impossible to play, right from the start, and quickly settled on a .076 -.078, but still use fairly soft reeds.
It just proves we are all different, but there are a few 'basic facts', as Tom explains, so well.
 
Advice ...

Yep! Hey Roger ...

I was advised by someone "not from here" to get a Selmer S80 "E [.083 mm] opening" for my Tenor ...

But it's far to narrow a tip for me - It closes off at the first puff ... even with a lolly stick for a reed ... ;}

I am looking forward to Thursday, when my nice Jody Jazz DV is due to arrive from Costa Blanca, Spain ... :w00t::thankyou::w00t:
 
My first 'quality' mpc was an alto S80 C* ....I just couldn't get on with it at all ..... but I went through some really good ones over the next coupla years(wish I'd kept some of them, as I was far too 'new' to realise how good they were) ....e.g. Vandoren A25 and Jumbo Java, Lamberson M6, RPC, JJDV 6 :lol: If I'd stuck with the A25, I coulda saved myself LOTSA $$$$/£££ !!!

I hope you enjoy the JJDV tenor and that it is not too wide for you,as it was for me.
 
Once again thanks very much to everyone, and, as Sunray said, thank you very much Tom for your willingness to provide very well-informed and complete advice.

So I got some Rico Royal size 2 reeds, and they are definitely easier to play than the 2 1/2. Now I have been looking at the Runyon 22 mouthpieces, could someone suggest a good facing to use with the size 2 reed? I don't want a thin sound so I suppose one of the higher facings would be best. I also really need to work on the consistency of my notes. I'll go up and down a scale and the first note might sound really nice and thick and in tune but it dies off after. Need to learn to relax my muscles to open up my throat I suppose, sax is definitely much more physically demanding than I thought it would be!

Thanks again to everyone for all the help
 
I'd recommend a #5 facing at 0.072" - smaller than the one that you are using, but near enough. As you mention thinness of sound CAN be about small tip opening, but alongside tense throat muscles and not enough air going through. Charlie Parker produced his sound on a 0.069" Runyon 22 facing and doesn't sound particularly thin! You will need to work on breathing from your diaphragm - breathing so that your abdomen expands considerably - as that should sustain a more open throat when playing a scale. When you practice long notes it would be useful to time yourself to see at what point you are straining - narrowing your throat to preserve some air flow. As a beginner you could work towards holding a note for 20 seconds plus (I can normally hold a note for over a minute before my throat tightens), and producing a good, sustained tone on that note.

Many alto sax players use a #5 facing, so you would be in good company.......!
Kind regards
Tom
 
Yes, there is just no substitute for long tones...as I said elsewhere, Pete has some good advice in this site, on making long-tone practice most productive.
I vary mine by annoying the neighbours, trying to go smoothly from ppp to fffand back, without losing sound quality ...sometimes I can do it!

[Just a quick off topic excursion: my teacher, in his 70s, but a player for 55years, had his lung capacity tested in hospital .......the staff couldn't believe how long he kept blowing into the 'machine' :lol: ]
 
Once again thanks very much everyone for all the advice. I have a few more questions:

Right now the neck and mouthpiece are loose inside my case (although the mouthpiece is in that protective slide in plastic thing), would it be good to invest in some further protective sleeves for the neck and mouthpiece or are they fine just being in the case? (My horn is always in the case when not in use).

It's probably fine, but worth asking if it's all right to use those gas dusters on the sax if it ever gets dusty to get dust out of the crevices of the pads and whatnot. As is true with all my instruments I am paranoid about doing any harm to do it so just thought I would ask.

Thanks

EDIT: Tom, I got the Runyon 22 at #5 facing and am liking it a lot. I'm using it with the ligature that originally came with the horn since the ligature that came with the Runyon was just a plastic one that I assume is of lower quality than the metal one. Thanks for the suggestion
 
Lots of us leave the sax on a stand - providing it is safe to do so. Case-wise it just would matter as to how loose the neck is and how much movement it is likely to have whilst in the case. I personally have never bought a protective sleeve but don't know what others do about it.

Glad you like the 22, and best with a decent ligature.
Kind regards
Tom
 

Similar threads... or are they? Maybe not but they could be worth reading anyway 😀

Trending

Latest Song of the Month

Forum statistics

Topics
32,254
Messages
575,793
Members
8,082
Latest member
Reedswinds
Back
Top Bottom