Saxophones Selmer series 3 Tenor

[PMason247]

What evidence do you have they Selmers leave the factory “unplayable, or the engraving has been left off, or there is no case”?

Yes, they could do better with setup. Engraving was optional once upon a time in some markets - the III was made without engraving as a design decision. I’ve not seen anything to support the claim that Selmer shipped horns from the factory without cases.

I'll send you a picture of the polystyrene case when I get into the loft, but they definitely did ship without cases.

 

[Dr G]

I'll send you a picture of the polystyrene case when I get into the loft, but they definitely did ship without cases.

I’ll take your word for it. My experience tells me that it was likely a dealer request rather than standard fare. The only time that I’ve seen Selmers in cases other than a Selmer case were when the player ordered an aftermarket case for a horn they already owned. In my instance, I bought cases from Anvil, Walt Johnson, and BAM.

 

[rhysonsax]

I think that it was very common in the UK market for Selmer to quote prices without any case. Of course that is different from selling lots of saxophones without a case.

I don't remember any other brand quoting prices without a case.

Rhys

 

[PMason247]

I’ll take your word for it. My experience tells me that it was likely a dealer request rather than standard fare. The only time that I’ve seen Selmers in cases other than a Selmer case were when the player ordered an aftermarket case for a horn they already owned. In my instance, I bought cases from Anvil, Walt Johnson, and BAM.

In fact, thinking about it, before my ser3 I did buy a ser2 and that too came without a case. Tgus time I'm going back to the 90's when you could buy a ser2 for £1500. I remember during that period Selmer company were struggling. So maybe they had these options as a way to keep selling horns.

I mean, it was 30+ years ago

 

[rhysonsax]

I looked back in some old UK music shop catalogues and pricelists which I have horded since the late 90s.

• Michael White (Winter 1997): Prices quoted separately for excl. case non engr.; excl. case engraved; incl. Selmer case engr.; or in Michael White case.
• Bill Lewington (December 1997): SELMER - France "These prices are for engraved models, excluding case unless otherwise stated."
• Saxophones.co.uk (July 2004): "All Selmer sax prices do not include case (unless otherwise stated). All supplied with S80 C* ebonite mouthpiece, pull through and strap. Deduct £30 to exclude the mouthpiece."

Other shops or dealers (e.g. Dawkes, Myatts, Don Mackrills, Allegro Oxford, Modern Music) in the early 2000s either listed Selmer prices as POA or did include cases in the quoted price, usually a Selmer Lite case.

Rhys

 

[PMason247]

I looked back in some old UK music shop catalogues and pricelists which I have horded since the late 90s.

• Michael White (Winter 1997): Prices quoted separately for excl. case non engr.; excl. case engraved; incl. Selmer case engr.; or in Michael White case.
• Bill Lewington (December 1997): SELMER - France "These prices are for engraved models, excluding case unless otherwise stated."
• Saxophones.co.uk (July 2004): "All Selmer sax prices do not include case (unless otherwise stated). All supplied with S80 C* ebonite mouthpiece, pull through and strap. Deduct £30 to exclude the mouthpiece."

Other shops or dealers (e.g. Dawkes, Myatts, Don Mackrills, Allegro Oxford, Modern Music) in the early 2000s either listed Selmer prices as POA or did include cases in the quoted price, usually a Selmer Lite case.

Rhys

Wow. There's some shop names from the past.

 

[Dr G]

What evidence do you have they Selmers leave the factory “unplayable, or the engraving has been left off, or there is no case”?

Yes, they could do better with setup. Engraving was optional once upon a time in some markets - the III was made without engraving as a design decision. I’ve not seen anything to support the claim that Selmer shipped horns from the factory without cases.

@Ivan Please respond with your reasoning and evidence to support your statement. You are making some very strong statements regarding an existing business. Leaving such defaming statements without supporting evidence puts CafeSaxophone at risk.

1) Please quantify “ unplayable”. There is a big difference between “needs adjustment” and “cannot produce a sound”.

2) Have you ever seen a horn that was supposed to be engraved that showed up sans engraving? How would you even know if a horn was missing its intended engraving?

3) Have you heard from dealers that they were paying for cases that failed to appear?

 

[Dr G]

This is more by conjecture than fact. My earlier experience with the Buffets was an eye opener. Perhaps this is why Yamaha and others have dominated the market? Customer satisfaction?

Consider marketing and price point. Yamaha has a lot of instruments that are more affordable to beginners and intermediate players. Selmer is historically aiming at the pro market.

 

[Ivan]

Please respond with your reasoning and evidence to support your statement. You are making some very strong statements regarding an existing business. Leaving such defaming statements without supporting evidence puts CafeSaxophone at risk.

Risk of what, exactly?

https://www.saxontheweb.net/posts/4495826/

https://www.saxontheweb.net/posts/4496060/

Of course "Factory Setup" from Selmer means its filled with leaks.

...unless they have changed their ways in the last few years.

From a Tech I know : “From 1990s onwards the newer the Selmer the more time the tech spends on it to set it up or to set it right.” Does it mean anything? YMMV. Mine is a quasi new Jubilee model. Nice tone. Very Selmer. Haven’t had any big issues but it definitely took a lot of time to set up properly. Weak soldering is one problem I’ve encountered. Fixed with Loctite superglue. I know, right. And the blue steel pins are set too hard ex-factory. Pads take a loooong time to settle. Once properly set up, plays like the best of ‘em. Selmer is now majority owned by a hedge fund who are not unknown to major cost-cutting and profit maximisation.

Slightly odd review from Wally Wallace. He talks about Selmer saxes having somewhat variable build quality out of the factory, but also refers to his own Selmer Mk VI. Selmers have had a reputation for variable quality going back to at least the time of the Mk VI (I've never played a Selmer of the pre-Mk VI generations)

My experience with new Selmers indicates that they have a very lacklustre approach to ensuring their horns work straight out of the box

Certainly my experience

 

[jonf]

Risk of what, exactly?

https://www.saxontheweb.net/posts/4495826/

https://www.saxontheweb.net/posts/4496060/

No risk. Selmer saxes needing to go through a set up before they're playable has been so widely discussed (as pointed out by the selection of quotes you make) that it is out there as a discussion point.

It's also shown by Selmer's own documentation, that historically Selmer prices were for a sax without any 'extras'. If you wanted it engraved, you had to pay extra. If you wanted a case, you paid extra, with a further premium if you wanted a Selmer branded case. If you ordered direct from Selmer without paying the extra charges, you got an unengraved sax in a shipping carton. This was certainly the situation as recently as when I started to play sax, in 1980, and I remember older players joking about it.

 

[Pete Effamy]

Risk of what, exactly?

https://www.saxontheweb.net/posts/4495826/

https://www.saxontheweb.net/posts/4496060/

Awful isn’t it. Imagine getting your new car and it splutters down the road in dire need of a tune-up.

(Historical post pre electric cars)

 

[Ivan]

Awful isn’t it. Imagine getting your new car and it splutters down the road in dire need of a tune-up.

(Historical post pre electric cars)

Nowadays the cars simply set fire to themselves

 

[Ghr9204]

Awful isn’t it. Imagine getting your new car and it splutters down the road in dire need of a tune-up. (Historical post pre electric cars)

I thought in the old days having Lucas electrical components made up for that.

 

[Pete Effamy]

I thought in the old days having Lucas electrical components made up for that.

Candles for headlights

 

[PMason247]

I find that difficult to believe - it would add more cost for Selmer to ship horns and cases separately. Your dealer may have priced the horn and case separately to encourage sale of aftermarket cases (or to just jack up the price). Of all the Selmer players I have played with over the years (since the ‘70s), most had Selmer cases. There were very few aftermarket cases, and the only people that needed them were players that gigged on the road.

When I bought my Serie III and Ref 36, there was no mention of the cost of the horn without a case.

I would enjoy seeing your horn.

So I finally got into the loft and found the polystyrene box my Selmer came in. There is also the magnet key clamp which was located inside the body tube. Selmer really did sell saxophones without cases for a number of years late 90's early 2000's. Hope you find this interesting.

 

[Dr G]

So I finally got into the loft and found the polystyrene box my Selmer came in. There is also the magnet key clamp which was located inside the body tube. Selmer really did sell saxophones without cases for a number of years late 90's early 2000's. Hope you find this interesting. View attachment 32088

Thank you. I do find that interesting - especially the key clamp. I wonder why a similar device never came to market? Did it work? Do you still have all the bits?

 

[PMason247]

Thank you. I do find that interesting - especially the key clamp. I wonder why a similar device never came to market? Did it work? Do you still have all the bits?

It seemed to work, and yes, that's all my bits in the photo. Been in my loft for 20years!